Contemplating becoming a switch hitter, Euro to greenland paddle

I should also qualify my statement about for rolling, if you are depending on paddle shapes, you need to practice more. Rolling is more about body mechanics than paddle shape {or should be} There are paddles that will enhance beginning rolling and so if you are going to own a paddle you need to chose some things over others depending on your focus. I have chosen {for my personal paddles} paddle shapes that enhance the forward stroke. And the efficiency of the forward stroke, but I realize some people focus and paddling venue is different. Many paddlers don’t have miles to go in the smaller lakes and thus might opt for a more rolling focus and a paddle shape that takes that into account.

@roym said:
A flared tip will load at the entry and be better for sprinting. A tapered tip will catch smoother and the load will build farther back {after the big muscles have come to a better/less extended position} and be easier on the joints and impart less shock and be less fatiguing for distance paddling.

I am struck by a language barrier here, I think. I have absolutely no idea what “flared” and “tapered” means in this context. Could you point to some images of typical flared and tapered tips.

I’ve seen photos of Inuit GPs with bone tips that are wider than the rest of the blade. This adds surface area and should increase the initial “bite” of the blade. I’m pretty sure that this is what Roy means.

this should be worth a thousand words. Bryan is correct
http://www.traditionalkayaks.com/Kayakreplicas/Paddles.html

@roym said:
this should be worth a thousand words. Bryan is correct
http://www.traditionalkayaks.com/Kayakreplicas/Paddles.html

Errh… I see a lot of paddles in these photos. But if I don’t know which ones you would call tapered, and which ones you would call flared, I am not really getting any wiser.

I could guess that no. 8 in the first photo is tapered, and no. 18 is flared. But none of these represent anything I see in typical, commercial paddle designs.

Here is a picture, You tell me. Does the paddle blade flare towards the end {get larger} or does the paddle blade taper towards the tip? {get smaller and thinner} {photo by Greg Stamer}

as a note. If you are talking Greenland Paddles or if you are talking commercial carbon offerings from the few companies producing carbon paddles. These two things are different. All of the commercial Carbon Greenland style paddles , to my knowledge, follow only one style or a variation of that one style. That style tends towards a sprinting style for a Greenland Paddle and not the quiet hunting style with a truly efficient long distance stroke as its prime function.

As the hunting style in Greenland changed, so did the paddle shape. The need to sneak up on a sleeping seal with a harpoon gave way to rifles and a need to get to a seal that had been shot from a distance and attach a float before it sank. As motor boats and rifles became more prevalent the need for close quarters stealth gave way. Today , in Greenland the focus has continued with the advent of the Greenland games where stealth is non existent and speed for racing } and rolling proficiency is what the paddle shapes are focused on. So that is what the Carbon Greenland Paddle producers have used as a guideline. It however doesn’t mean that there is only one style of shape that is called a Greenland Paddle. {the paddle pictured above is that of Maligiaq Padilla’s grandfather’s , a seal hunter} {photo by Greg Stamer}

I’m not sure if you can tell , but here is a picture of 3 different tips done in carbon.


{I made these to test shapes of different style Greenland paddles} The first has a taper from the shoulder of the paddle to the widest point right at the tip. The second has a taper to a point several inches from the tip and then continues at that width all the way to the tip. The third has a taper from the paddles shoulder to a spot several inches from the tip and then closer to the tip it becomes narrower {tapers} for a finer entry.

Is the white pole on the right of the photo for scale? It looks like it is about 3’ 6", I am looking at tapered designs for the “quiet” with tapered shoulders. I am going to try out some different length looms and profiles of the looms.
My quick purchase has made me realise, once again , how little I know, slowing down to make a little more informed decision.

Reed now has their own, GP. Wondering about the hollow core, and the internal rib. I had early paddle from NLP, and played with an early Gearlab. They where both, hollow. You could hear the paddles, with each stroke. When the seams; of the NLP, where compromised, the paddle would take on water and slosh. Neither the NLP or GL , where very buoyant . I remember there was GP a discussion, a few years ago; on PNET, on foam vs hollow cores. Not sure what Gearlab , does now…

https://www.chillcheater.com/kayaks-and-paddles/2-piece-carbon-fibre-greenland-paddle

@trvlrerik said:
Is the white pole on the right of the photo for scale? It looks like it is about 3’ 6", I am looking at tapered designs for the “quiet” with tapered shoulders. I am going to try out some different length looms and profiles of the looms.
My quick purchase has made me realise, once again , how little I know, slowing down to make a little more informed decision.

A yardstick?

@Medawgone said:
Reed now has their own, GP. Wondering about the hollow core, and the internal rib.

I have looked at that one, and I am 95% sure that it is a rebranded Lars Gram greenland paddle, which I also own. I have never had water inside it.

Regarding the buoyancy, it may very well be less than a wooden paddle. It is thinner near the tip than any wooden paddle I have seen, and this will of course reduce the volume, which again will cause less buoyancy at the same weight.

@roym said:
I’m not sure if you can tell , but here is a picture of 3 different tips done in carbon.


{I made these to test shapes of different style Greenland paddles} The first has a taper from the shoulder of the paddle to the widest point right at the tip. The second has a taper to a point several inches from the tip and then continues at that width all the way to the tip. The third has a taper from the paddles shoulder to a spot several inches from the tip and then closer to the tip it becomes narrower {tapers} for a finer entry.

OK. So the one at the right is what you would call a tapered tip, I suppose. I have never seen that shape any any commercial paddle, neither carbon nor wood.

Is the one to the left then what you would call flared, or would the flaring have to be more extreme for that?

SORRY. the reason I chose the words flared and tapered, is because , when griped , in an extended position. {the hand on the paddle is somewhere around 6 inches from the extreme tip} the paddle either stays that width where it is being grasped to the extreme end. Or the paddle width continues to get wider all the way to the extreme tip. Or the paddle gets narrower to the extreme tip. Seems as thought this nomenclature is getting in the way of discussing the size of the portion of the paddle that is in first contact with the water and the way shape and volume changes during the stroke and the way a paddle acts during the stroke in relation to how the paddlers bodies muscles are either extended or partially contracted at various time throughout the stroke. I apologize for the rambling and for the chosen nomenclature. I seem to be not able to explain this in a short paragraph.

Just gonna add my own two-pennies worth on this topic of discussion if you don’t mind. Euro -vs- Greenland, each has a lot to offer paddling wise, I just think it depends on what the individual paddler favors when it comes to conditions-waters traveled-etc,. I myself, prefer lengthy paddling sessions on long deep water lakes, tidal rivers, bays, and coastal regions. Recently I have switched over to solely using a Greenland paddle, for sampling of reported benefits that I have read that favor my style of paddling. So far my findings are that everything that I read in favorable light of, has been absolutely true.

Now regarding Greenland paddles, there are many reputable persons online that you can buy a beautiful looking Greenland paddle from - which I did initially. But as soon as I received that first paddle, I knew instantly that this was something that I could craft myself, and do so to specifically fit my own personal needs with sizing even better. I have since started carving my own Greenland paddles now, and have come to discover that I love using GP even more since doing so. The simplicity in making them is just that. The fact that I can spend the time carving my own unique paddle, then go out and use it for paddling purposes - strokes & maneuvers, is all the more rewarding I find. So you see experimentation is best. When it comes to loom & blade sizing, tip shape & construction, there really is NO set standard on how they should be designed. If you read the book Kayaks of Greenland, written by Harvey Golden, you will find a section specifically written about paddles themselves- the history of-explanation of-and drawings & measurements of various museum pieces.

Lastly, I would only say that if you are contemplating on switching over to a Greenland paddle, I suggest that you make it yourself, or at least, take one of those Greenland paddle making classes. I think you’ll appreciate not only the paddle and the history of them even more, but your own woodworking skills just as well.

P.S. while your at it, make yourself a Greenland storm paddle too and learn how to effectively use the sliding stroke in windy conditions. It’s worth knowing.

@Longtrailahead said:
Just gonna add my own two-pennies worth on this topic of discussion if you don’t mind. Euro -vs- Greenland, each has a lot to offer paddling wise, I just think it depends on what the individual paddler favors when it comes to conditions-waters traveled-etc,. I myself, prefer lengthy paddling sessions on long deep water lakes, tidal rivers, bays, and coastal regions. Recently I have switched over to solely using a Greenland paddle, for sampling of reported benefits that I have read that favor my style of paddling. So far my findings are that everything that I read in favorable light of, has been absolutely true.

Now regarding Greenland paddles, there are many reputable persons online that you can buy a beautiful looking Greenland paddle from - which I did initially. But as soon as I received that first paddle, I knew instantly that this was something that I could craft myself, and do so to specifically fit my own personal needs with sizing even better. I have since started carving my own Greenland paddles now, and have come to discover that I love using GP even more since doing so. The simplicity in making them is just that. The fact that I can spend the time carving my own unique paddle, then go out and use it for paddling purposes - strokes & maneuvers, is all the more rewarding I find. So you see experimentation is best. When it comes to loom & blade sizing, tip shape & construction, there really is NO set standard on how they should be designed. If you read the book Kayaks of Greenland, written by Harvey Golden, you will find a section specifically written about paddles themselves- the history of-explanation of-and drawings & measurements of various museum pieces.

Lastly, I would only say that if you are contemplating on switching over to a Greenland paddle, I suggest that you make it yourself, or at least, take one of those Greenland paddle making classes. I think you’ll appreciate not only the paddle and the history of them even more, but your own woodworking skills just as well.

P.S. while your at it, make yourself a Greenland storm paddle too and learn how to effectively use the sliding stroke in windy conditions. It’s worth knowing.

That’s 2 bits worth.

That’s 2 bits worth.

Indeed, and I agree, making your own is a great route to go.

Re making your own, I’d like to offer this. It really helps to handle and use a well-made paddle before you make your own. I made my own in a group paddle-making session (at the end of a Cape Falcon build), and it seemed pretty nice. A little blocky, but felt like it worked well. A year later, the boat designer gave me a GP he carved as a thank-you for borrowing the same SOF for a couple of weeks. His paddle is the same overall size, but the loom shape, blade shape, tip shape and edge dimensions are all more refined, and the paddle is MUCH better than the one I made. It’s not skill really (I was a professional carpenter way back when), but a knowledge of the fine details of what works and what you like. My paddle now stands in the corner and will stay there until I can get it up to the same level of refinement. Not to say you can’t experiment your way from a first paddle to a really nice one, but having the experience of using a really good paddle helps set the goal.

Fortunately, it’s cheap and easy to make them, so you can experiment as much as you like.

Just stumbled across the website of a guy (evidently in southern New Hampshire) who makes what look like some very nice custom wood GP’s for very good prices. http://skotsstix.com