Bow/Stern tie downs

I use friction straps for short trips but I always make sure I have bow and stern tied down with good rope and well-tied knots on longer trips. I led trips and/or worked trip logistics for many years in the past and transported canoes for hundreds if not thousands of miles and never had a rope or knot fail…I did however have a canoe fly once that was tied with two ratchet straps. I’ve never made that mistake again.

@JackL said:
Never use ratchet straps !

I agree avoid them

Just a dumb trick for a canoe - when I have the darned chance to tale out the Merlin and prove how lousy a canoeist I am, I set the boat up with at least one thwart directly over a cross bar. Then I run a strap around the the thwart and cross bar underneath. I usually use a long enough red strap that I can daisy chain it out back and have it be my flag and backup check.

I started doing this because I didn’t have the chucks to limit side movement. But after seeing a canoe going down the highway in Maine with its skin being torn off by the wind because the bow had been a bit lifted, I feel much better with the structure itself strapped to the rack.

The car was going north when I was going south, so I couldn’t do anything to warn them. The good news was that the blowing mass of material was obvious to drivers behind them, so when it let go it was not likely to cause an accident.

You can also purchase ready-made hood tie down loops - e.g., https://rei.com/product/818318/seattle-sports-hood-loops?CAWELAID=120217890000786252&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=21009508720&CATCI=aud-54816614184:pla-450192220531&cm_mmc=PLA_Google%7C404_166394%7C8183180001%7Cnone%7Cb1a9c2ed-f49b-4f96-9550-394e60b82cfe%7Caud-54816614184:pla-450192220531&lsft=cm_mmc:PLA_Google_LIA%7C404_166394%7C8183180001%7Cnone%7Cb1a9c2ed-f49b-4f96-9550-394e60b82cfe&kclid=b1a9c2ed-f49b-4f96-9550-394e60b82cfe&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtP_iBRDGARIsAEWJA8gfoIaIipih6bhSzSgVHTw3bbUmHyo_MYBrH3Foj-V4WHDJe8KCvPsaAkyAEALw_wcB

As to hood loops, I just tied off some rope from some metal supporting the hood and front quarters that goes out the front under the hood.

A taut line hitch always worked for me. Here’s a youtube vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jkN3K5G8eE

@Celia said:
As to hood loops, I just tied off some rope from some metal supporting the hood and front quarters that goes out the front under the hood.

If you go from the front of the hood, the rope may still rub on the paint. Most folks find some bolt along the sides of the hood to attach webbing to. That way there is no direct contact with the paint by tie down ropes.

My paddling vehicle doesn’t worry about a rub.

@yknpdlr I and my husband, then I, have used hood loops made of rope since approximately 2002 thru 6 cars. 3 Ford/Mercury wagons, one Subaru and two Toyotas. Never had the issue you name. And the side positions, which I have used at times in 2 of those cars because of the hood configuration, also rub on the edge of the hood. Just a different edge.

Celia, When I first started carrying a canoe on a vehicle, I had an AMC Hornet as my first vehicle. Not knowing any better, I attached ropes under the front bumper which ran up over the hood and rubbed on the hood as they held the canoe down. I had to tie an old rag to the rope where it rubbed to preserve the paint. More recently, my vehicles have been Subarus. There is an accessible bolt about mid-way back from the front on each side of the engine compartment under the hood. I fasten loops of webbing to these bolts and pass them up through the small gap between the hood and the fender when the hood is closed. A single rope is connected to each web loop and secured to the canoe under slight tension with a truckers hitch. There is no way for the webbing or tie-down rope to rub on anything in that configuration. When not in use the webbing loops rest inside the engine compartment out of sight under the closed hood.

@yknpdlr said:
More recently, my vehicles have been Subarus. There is an accessible bolt about mid-way back from the front on each side of the engine compartment under the hood. I fasten loops of webbing to these bolts and pass them up through the small gap between the hood and the fender when the hood is closed.

I too have a Subaru and do the same as yknpdlr to fasten the bow tie-down to my kayaks. However I also put plastic tubing around the webbing, mostly to protect the webbing and (maybe) paint.

@yknpdlr I know the bolt you are talking about, on the Subaru. And I went somewhat from the side on my last Rav4 as well because of the hood shape and where I had a nice frame element, Unless the strap you are using is so thin as to never encounter an edge of the hood when you are traveling, when things are moving a bit, it does touch the edge of the hood under pressure. The straps or ropes I am comfortable relying on do. My big annual trip is about 6 hours of driving time mostly highways.

I/we only went from under the front bumper twice. Coming home the second time the line, long enough to get into the wheel well if it happened just right, came loose. Pulled over fast so no problem but we got the message. Have since always run from a frame element just under the hood, and the only part of the hood it touches is the edge.

I don’t doubt that the Hornet had a vulnerable paint surface, and others out there may. I remember the Hornets and other AMC cars, though I never had one myself. It is just not an issue I have had.

In 2017 I drove from northern NY state to Whitehorse and Dawson City, Yukon and returned. I had a 23’ C4 canoe on top of my Forester. The webbing straps attached to a rope to hold down the bow came through the gap between the hood and the fender and neither webbing nor rope ever touched any painted surface.

Sorry no front view photos.

@yknpdlr Your gap must have been bigger than mine have been.

I use these with some rope and a taut line knot as mentioned above. Works great and doesn’t matter what vehicle you drive.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CRBXQUK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

@yknpdlr said:
In 2017 I drove from northern NY state to Whitehorse and Dawson City, Yukon and returned. I had a 23’ C4 canoe on top of my Forester. The webbing straps attached to a rope to hold down the bow came through the gap between the hood and the fender and neither webbing nor rope ever touched any painted surface.

Sorry no front view photos.

An epic trip.

Might I offer you a look at the hood loop system mentioned above: Go to my website:https://tomoutdoors.com/outdoor-tips/ and scroll down to the article on nylon strap installation. I’ve had loops on my van for over 10 years and they are still in great shape, haven’t lost a boat yet, either.

@yknpdlr said:
In 2017 I drove from northern NY state to Whitehorse and Dawson City, Yukon and returned. I had a 23’ C4 canoe on top of my Forester. The webbing straps attached to a rope to hold down the bow came through the gap between the hood and the fender and neither webbing nor rope ever touched any painted surface.

Sorry no front view photos.

Same here with our 2014 Forester. Many thousands of miles with as many as three boats secured the same way

Last year I tried moving my bow/stern lines back to the crossbars on the roof rack. My theory was that this was even better at keeping the boats secure from fore/aft shifts, especially if one of the straps around the hull failed.

But now that spring is around the corner I’m wondering if this is a good idea. The configuration described above does not provide any downward force, but is that the purpose of the bow/stern straps?

Try for the most possible redundancy. Go through your straps and imagine each one failing independently. Do the others provide enough support if one fails? However unlikely, what about two failing? What if your rack comes loose from the car? Also very unlikely (if properly installed!) but I’ve been around long enough not to quickly dismiss possibilities. Ideally you don’t want to have all your straps/ropes attached only to the rack. Having some attached directly to the vehicle adds valuable redundancy.

The main purpose of fore/aft straps on long boats is to keep the bow from lifting at highway speeds and/or strong wind gusts. This force can be quite strong at times and essentially wants to “pull” the rack off the car vertically. The bow sticking out front of your vehicle has a lot of leverage under those conditions. This is especially important when the cradles aren’t spaced very far apart - which is limited by your vehicle and rack design. Similarly, on bumpy roads the bow/stern tie-downs limit the amount of “rocking” that occurs, which can set up damaging momentum in extreme cases.

The way you describe, you are indeed countering the movement fore/aft, but have nothing to deal with most of what I’ve described. If your setup is particularly prone to (or you’re just worried about) the boat sliding, instead of relocating the straps just add another pair that goes to a point as directly below the bow and stern attachment points as possible. When roof topping with J-cradles, I try to cross the straps so that there is also some force pulling the boat against the cradle. So the passenger side bow strap, for example, would be attached somewhere near the bumper on the driver’s side and vice-versa. Loops that go under your hood are a good idea here, as they also limit the length of strap/rope required to a length that won’t get caught under a tire if it comes loose.