How Heavy Is Too Heavy?

@Glenn MacGrady said:
Any solo canoe or kayak that is over 45 pounds is too heavy.
This is complete BS, as it eliminates all but a handful of commercially made sea kayaks. Utter nonsense!

@bnystrom said:
Utter nonsense!
nonsense for thee but not for me
(age - mid 60’s, kayak miles - over 4k/yr, avg (of 8) kayak weight - 35lbs)

I’m 76 and wouldn’t trade my 19’-2", 51 pound fiberglass sea kayak for anything. I still carry it on my shoulder to and from the water. I do wish they would put the parking lots closer to the water, though.

The other day, I just about crossed one launch site off my list, because they changed the beach and it’s now pretty steep from the water to the parking lot. Ever try carrying a boat uphill in soft, dry sand?

@bnystrom said:

@Glenn MacGrady said:
Any solo canoe or kayak that is over 45 pounds is too heavy.
This is complete BS, as it eliminates all but a handful of commercially made sea kayaks. Utter nonsense!

Your response provides no objective and little subjective guidance on the topic question: How much weight is too much?

I simply provided the general weight guideline that I, in historical fact, followed from about age 40 for solo canoes, solo kayaks and solo outrigger canoes. From ages 8-40, I paddled and owned lots of much heavier canoes including aluminum, wood and Royalex tandems and solos. At around 40, it was impressed upon me by the top whitewater racers and flatwater sport canoeists of the time to consider lightweight composite canoes, and that my body would thank me in later years. I did, and and my body has.

I took up seakayaking after 40 and searched, I suppose, among the “handful” of lightweight kayaks in that field. I was never interested in a kayak that could cross the North Sea or circumnavigate Iceland, but which simply could provide some pleasant day trips and exercise and which was easy to carry on portage routes. I suspect that the “handful” has grown bigger over the past 20 years with the increasing popularity of modern construction techniques such as resin infusion, more space age fabrics, and the move to shorter kayaks (and canoes).

Weight may not matter much to the young, the strong, the physically fit and the perfectly healthy. And heavy boats certainly have a place in niche areas such as expedition paddling (or historic recreations). However, for those of us who are – or who soon will be – no longer young, no longer strong, no longer fit, no longer healthy and no longer interested in expedition paddling in heavy boats, I think my old rule of thumb still makes sense. Today, in fact, I would strive for solo boats under 40 pounds even if I were still superboy. Other folks, of course, have different histories and different opinions.

Skin on frame kayaks and surf skis, both rigid and folding versions, have indeed been used for racing. They are more common in Europe:

http://race.fit2paddle.com/C1159474119/E20051123005157/index.html

Magooch - there comes a time for kayak carts… just sayin’ :slight_smile:

Per light boats and portability for us “geezers”: I have 8 in the armada at the moment and only one is a bit over 40 pounds. I live on a steep hill (you have to descend a flight of 6 steps just to get from the street to the front yard) with no place for a driveway or garage so these all live in my walk-out basement in back of the house. I will be building a garage and boat storage house within the next year at the level rental property that I own a few blocks away but for now this is the arrangement.

At 69 years old and only 5’ 4" tall I no longer want to own any boat that I cannot carry on my own (without pain and strain) from the basement, up through the yard and steps and hoist onto the car roof rack. I do have a double kayak trailer but it has to be parked for now 150’ behind the house in the back alley (down at the bottom of the steep yard). But using the trailer and putting the folding kayaks into their respective duffel bags I can haul all eight boats (260 pounds total) in one trip.

Listed by length. The 18’ SOF (with 20" beam) is the fastest:

12’ Pakboat Puffin folding kayak: 23 pounds
12’ Curtis Ladybug canoe: 37 pounds
13.5’ Pakboat Quest 135 folding kayak: 27 pounds
(two) 14’ Pakboat Swift folding kayaks: 28 pounds each
15’ Venture Easky LV plastic kayak: 46 pounds
15’ 7" Feathercraft Wisper folding kayak: 37 pounds
18’ handbuilt West Greenland replica rigid skin on frame: 34 pounds

@willowleaf said:
But using the trailer and putting the folding kayaks into their respective duffel bags I can haul all eight boats (260 pounds total) in one trip.
Nice,
wish I could do the same
(you know, when & if need to escape a hurricane that gets a bit too close - wait a minute, need to go check that 2pm forecast update)

@willowleaf said:
Skin on frame kayaks and surf skis, both rigid and folding versions, have indeed been used for racing. They are more common in Europe:

http://race.fit2paddle.com/C1159474119/E20051123005157/index.html

I’m thrilled that Nautiraid’s 2006 folding race kayak weighed 29.5 lbs. They paid attention to a racing champion on the weight issue. It’s also historically interesting that folding kayaks were raced in the 1936 Olympics. That was just after fiberglass was invented and before it was being used for boat hulls.

I’m not in any way opposed to SOF’s. I find them fascinating, would love to paddle one, visited 20 years ago with a fellow who made them in the islands north of Seattle, and became entranced with the idea of a baidarka after reading Dyson’s book.

But, Willowleaf, you’re trying to defend the indefensible – the narrow and perhaps totally unimportant question of whether a SOF hull can beat a modern composite hull in an ocean race, the paddlers being equal. There is no historical race evidence of which I’m aware that suggests that. But who cares, really, for all us non-racers. Having been away from this site for 2+ years, I was very interested to have read yesterday that you recently bought a Curtis Ladybug . . . canoe! Congratulations. I doubt that model would have been as popular as it was if it had exceeded 45 pounds.

@Celia I have been playing with the seating to get my body weight where I want it in relation to the buoyancy of the hull. Rolls nice. Took the original seat out, tried a foam seat, then tried a gel seat , then tried a thermorest self inflating seat. Took out all the thigh brace foam that the former owner had in it. Put some back in. took it out rolling between each change. Then did the next change. Hips are next. I like them a bit loose, but not too loose. Having some rotator cuff issues so had to quit for the day. This is a very fun kayak. The first time I paddled it, I was on Lake Superior…now I’m doing all the fitting on an inland lake so it’s a bit warmer to roll for a few hours and test.

I’ve been paddling Nordkapps for over 20 years…This seems to be one of the best. IT"S a KEEPER

I was talking about touring boats and touring conditions, not race-specific boats or racing at all, to begin with. Note that I said “similar boats”, as in touring or sea kayaks.

This excerpt (a report on a high performance Cape Falcon Kayak F1 SOF designed by Brian Schulz) better describes the performance characteristics of a skin on frame in challenging conditions than I can – the author in one instance was out with two other paddlers in high end composite sea kayaks, an NDK Explorer and Tiderace Xcite, and the F1 outperformed those in 30 mph winds and rough water.

https://www.adventuresportsnetwork.com/sport/paddle-sports/canoe-kayak/rides-david-bixbys-cape-falcon-f1-skin-on-frame-kayak/

Roym, I am glad to hear you are enjoying the boat! Jim loved how it went thru the water, it is slick, and I adored how it rolls. One of a handful of boats I had to stop with the paddle to avoid window shading. And that was with a very loose fit and no foot contact.

I have kept the Nordlow hoping to have a season where I could really take it out. But I want my roll solid on both sides before I do that. Unfortunately I started recovering from the loss of kayaking time due to Jim’s illness just in time for my stepmother’s health issues to ramp up. The latter is finally heading towards a more sane resolution and it looks like I will have the pool time I need this winter to get my left side back in operation. I am looking forward to that.

@Celia Sits on the water like a praying mantis. What’s not to like B)

Roy, it is a sharp looking set of colors too. Too pretty for me, with my sloppy habits a white hull is better…

If you ever pass through SW Pennsylvania I’d be glad to offer you a test drive in my West Greenland SOF, built by Dawa Nordrup of Monkcraft Kayaks out in Oregon.

@Glenn MacGrady said:

@bnystrom said:

@Glenn MacGrady said:
Any solo canoe or kayak that is over 45 pounds is too heavy.
This is complete BS, as it eliminates all but a handful of commercially made sea kayaks. Utter nonsense!

Your response provides no objective and little subjective guidance on the topic question: How much weight is too much?

If YOU need lightweight boats due to physical limitations, that’s fine; nobody is going to argue with you. However, stating that “Any solo canoe or kayak that is over 45 pounds is too heavy.” as some kind of hard and fast rule for others is just plain ridiculous and has zero basis in fact. Millions of people are happily paddling heavier boats.

You want heavy? Concrete canoes run about 300 pounds each. Yes, they are a thing and there are entire organizations devoted to designing, building and racing them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_canoe

“Too heavy” is subjective and personal.

@willowleaf said:
“Too heavy” is subjective and personal.
Exactly.

Roym, do you really roll “for a few hours”? About one hour is plenty for me.

What is too heavy for one person not only differs from one person to another, it also can change over time.

I’ve always been happy paddling boats in the 55-60 lb range and still enjoy doing so. However, CARRYING them is another matter. That weight always felt borderline for me. A few years ago I stopped shouldering it, period. Using a portage cart and a trailer minimize the need to lift and carry. Unfortunately, any real carrying now means I need my husband to help, which limits my days on the water. And we both are tired of schlepping the weight when it is possible to get something lighter.

The limit is set mainly by affordability and what lightweight boats are available that we like. Affordability is a bit less of an issue than it was 15 years ago. Now the task is to scope out other boats.