@Glenn MacGrady said:
and as the OP I request the discussion be in ounces.
Sorry. I am not from the land of oz, so I will have to pass on that.
Depends on your personal strength and budget. For me Werner CF line is my limit.
I have carbons and non carbons… An ounce or two use to really matter.
Now I don’t go far enough or fast enough to matter much nowadays.
No, we don’t.
Kayak. Too heavy: anything over 22 ounces for my Euro or 26 ounces for my GP. I can forgive the extra weight on the GP because of its buoyancy. Swing weight and shoulders count.
For Allan’s benefit, that’s 624 and 737 grams. 
Oh no! They are over a pound!
I made a paddle out of an old barbell for the shaft and blades from brick pavers. Not too heavy!
I think the brick pavers will chip when you push off of rocks. I’ve had great luck with manhole covers, you can weld the barbell shafts to them and they just aren’t coming off! Plus, with that large a paddle area you get a real push when you put your biceps (!) into it!
Somebody on another paddler forum posted a 26 ounce Werner carbon Kalliste paddle for sale for $320 and somebody else posted the comment that “you can get a carbon paddle from Academy Sports for $99”.
Out of curiosity I looked at the Academy website and they do have a “carbon” paddle by Magellan for $149. It weighs 50 ounces!! 50 ounces is almost a pound heavier than most “barbell” aluminum and plastic tourist rental paddles! Also, half the buyers who reviewed the model reported that the shaft broke early on during use. Such a bargain!
I pointed out that using a 50 ounce paddle rather than a 26 ounce paddle would mean that you were swinging almost 1.5 extra tons of weight per hour.
30 strokes per minute x 60 minutes = 1800 strokes x 24 ounces = 43,200 ounces divided by 16 oz/pd = 2,700 pounds.
Second commenter said “I don’t think your physics/mathematics make sense”. Numbers don’t lie. Engineers, weigh in.
@willowleaf said:
Out of curiosity I looked at the Academy website and they do have a “carbon” paddle by Magellan for $149. It weighs 50 ounces!! 50 ounces is almost a pound heavier than most “barbell” aluminum and plastic tourist rental paddles! Also, half the buyers of the model reported that the shaft broke early on. Such a bargain.
Carbon takes many forms. Maybe something was lost in translation.
Maybe the Magellan paddle is carved out of asphalt.
A lot of it depends on where the weight lies, the technique of the paddler, and where you paddle. A heavier swing weight is good in big water and for those that have quit overusing their elbows. Lighter overall is better for newbs that use their forearms for the heavy work.
When you get good enough you can rely on your personal preference. I use either an Epic mid wing or Fenn 4 for kayaking. I designed and built my own paddles for single blade usage. They weigh 11-12 oz and have heavy swing weight.
I always pay extra for light paddles. While a light boat feels more responsive, they are not significantly faster. But a light paddle pays off every time, especially at the end of a long day. That said, too light can be a danger (too fragile)…
@willowleaf said:
Somebody on another paddler forum posted a 26 ounce Werner carbon Kalliste paddle for sale for $320 and somebody else posted the comment that “you can get a carbon paddle from Academy Sports for $99”.Out of curiosity I looked at the Academy website and they do have a “carbon” paddle by Magellan for $149. It weighs 50 ounces!! 50 ounces is almost a pound heavier than most “barbell” aluminum and plastic tourist rental paddles! Also, half the buyers who reviewed the model reported that the shaft broke early on during use. Such a bargain!
I pointed out that using a 50 ounce paddle rather than a 26 ounce paddle would mean that you were swinging almost 1.5 extra tons of weight per hour.
30 strokes per minute x 60 minutes = 1800 strokes x 24 ounces = 43,200 ounces divided by 16 oz/pd = 2,700 pounds.
Second commenter said “I don’t think your physics/mathematics make sense”. Numbers don’t lie. Engineers, weigh in.
Well if you’re going to throw out nerd bait you’ll catch me almost every time.
I think your analysis is fine as a first approximation (especially since you have stated your assumptions) and interestingly enough this site has an example that follows your logic exactly.
But there are some details…
You don’t really lift the whole paddle each stroke, it seems more like you lift one side. The motion is pretty complex but I think kayak paddles sort of pivot around the center. So maybe you “lift” only half the paddle…so this would reduce your estimate.
There are dynamic forces involved…since you have to accelerate and decelerate the paddle. Those forces increase with weight and would add to your estimate.
There’s some effect of mass distribution…even intuitively if you add 20 ounces to the center of a kayak paddle shaft it would be easier to use than if you added 10 ounces to the tip of each blade. I suspect that a 50 ounce kayak paddle would have heavy blades and this would add to the overall effort (since the cg of each half of the paddle would move closer to the blade).
I found a tennis racket swing weight estimator that seems to highlight the four key factors.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/swingweight_calc.php
And oh my goodness we haven’t even touched on wind resistance. (nerd humor).
On the subjective side I can tell you that if you do sit and switch with a canoe paddle and double the weight of the paddle it takes a sh!tload more work.
Make sense?
Gotta love engineers.
I can relate one subjective testimonial: I was paddling solo at a local reservoir and encountered a young couple in rec boats from the on site rental franchise. Apparently it was the female’s first outing and she was complaining loudly about how much she hated the activity and how hard it was to paddle and why couldn’t they turn around and leave now. I noticed that the paddle she had looked both too long and extremely heavy: one of those $29.99 discount store monstrosities with a metal shaft and black square plastic blades about an inch thick. I had a spare 220 Werner Sultan on my deck and offered to swap with her until we got back to the dock.
With her first stroke with my paddle her eyes lit up and she took off across the pond like a bat out of hell. I watched her boyfriend try in vain to catch up. By the time our paths crossed again on the way back to the ramp she was gushing about how much fun kayaking was and how she wanted to get her own boat now.
Before we swapped back I did try the livery paddle that she had handed off to me just from morbid curiosity – freaking thing must have been 6 pounds and I felt like I was going to dislocate my shoulder after just a couple of strokes. Was like paddling with a barbell.
@willowleaf said:
I can relate one subjective testimonial: I was paddling solo at a local reservoir and encountered a young couple in rec boats from the on site rental franchise. Apparently it was the female’s first outing and she was complaining loudly about how much she hated the activity and how hard it was to paddle and why couldn’t they turn around and leave now. I noticed that the paddle she had looked both too long and extremely heavy: one of those $29.99 discount store monstrosities with a metal shaft and black square plastic blades about an inch thick. I had a spare 220 Werner Sultan on my deck and offered to swap with her until we got back to the dock.With her first stroke with my paddle her eyes lit up and she took off across the pond like a bat out of hell. I watched her boyfriend try in vain to catch up. By the time our paths crossed again on the way back to the ramp she was gushing about how much fun kayaking was and how she wanted to get her own boat now.
Before we swapped back I did try the livery paddle that she had handed off to me just from morbid curiosity – freaking thing must have been 6 pounds and I felt like I was going to dislocate my shoulder after just a couple of strokes. Was like paddling with a barbell.
There you go. About as subjective of an observation as you can get. A non yaker who wasn’t enjoying it at all now wants her own Kayak based on nothing but the weight of the paddle and the good deed of one paddler!
I’m still trying to find that balance in budget / paddle weight to see what I want, although I’m really starting to like my Greenland paddle more and more, depending on what kayak I take out.
Yeah, GP’s can be addictive. I almost never use a non-GP since getting my first one 10 years ago. I have several Werners and Aquabounds that only hang out on my decks as spares or are loaned to friends. There are a few people I know of who have tried GP’s and decided that they prefer conventional paddles, but they seem to be in the minority. I have never tried a wing paddle long enough to get the hang of it so I stay open-minded about those, but any time I use a standard paddle I am greatly relieved to get a GP back in my hands.
For me it depends on the conditions. If I see wind and waves I still have a little more confidence in my Werner Cyprus. If it’s calmer I’ll typically use my GP. But the GP is fairly new to me so things may well change with more experience.
I really like the cranked shaft of the Werner, but I also like the larger diameter, super smooth WRC loom of the GP.