Outstanding!
Good job…I got some good ideas. Thanks!
Outstanding, arkay!
Good Work!
That was nice work on a nice design. I also liked your method for getting the welding done by a pro, but in a cost-effective manner. As a hobby welder myself, I know all too well that making the actual weld is really only about 1/50th of the job. Fitting and jigging is what takes most of the time, so having a pro weld joints that have already been fully prepped and aligned would clearly save a bundle of cash, and that’s a tip that would really be helpful for the average person doing a job like this. Good thinking!
Your other comments show you really know your stuff when it comes to building materials.
Questions for arkay.
– Last Updated: Jul-21-07 8:20 AM EST –
That is truly a wonderful design and perfect timing; I am taking a very similar Pace brand Utility 4 x 6 trailer (shorter than yours) and trying to outfit it for 17.5 foot kayaks. On mine, which I have not modified yet, but it is almost the same as your black initial trailer in every way, I may need to not only extend the tongue, but also have the cross bars professionally welded off the tongue, like goalposts, to lengthen the span.
Questions please:
What is the maximum length of boat (canoe kayak) that your rig will trailer?
What is the total distance, if you will, from ball hitch to end of the actual boat (overhang) and the length of boat (the amount of back overhang will depend on the length of the boat)? Reason: I need to see if adding for a total 7.5 foot tongue, PLUS the overhang of boat from back of trailer (i.e. total distance) will fit in my garage. My goal is to have the entire thing ready to roll, boats secured, at a moment's notice. Would you suggest, from your experience, that the 7.5 foot total tongue length is necessary, or generously long?
Where'd ya get the metal? I like your thought of getting it all cut before going to the local welder. I need same size metal as you used.
Finally (for now, likely more later): I notice you have many angled uprights (front and back) of each boat support, plus a length of iron spanning horizontally from front to back support. Necessary? I would have thought the upright supports themselves, once welded would be sufficient for 5-70 lb boats. I was even considering having them removeable so that I could use the trailer for different items if needed (I read your comment about not making it too much of a hassle. I was just hoping to make one change at end of kayaking season). Does your experience, however, show that the uprights really need that amount of angle and cross span support.
A very nice set of photos and I thank you for posting them here, arkay. By the way, I hope to use mine, with a similar setup to yours, to camp on. Just clear the trailer bed, blow up an air mattress, secure a tarp over the goalposts, and ta daa, instant shelter. Think about it.
Awesome Arkay!
Looks really good!!
Arkay and Redmond, Pnet Trailer Gurus
– Last Updated: Jul-21-07 8:17 AM EST –
Thanks for all your advice on prior thread, too.
http://tinyurl.com/2mo57u
that is incredible
And of course, you couldn’t just build a first-class canoe trailer. No, you had to Arkayifie it with Brazillian Redwood.
Beautiful and functional
Super Job!
I want it. How did you (glue?) the strips of carpet to the bars? What do you think about the carpet? I noticed the foam blocks protecting your wood rails.
Re-reading your article, my ideas
In re-reading your article I think I answered most of the quesitons I had. I thought that was a “Carry-On” trailer…I have a similar 5x8 model with the 16" sides and steel grating all the way around. I agree with you on the ramp…dumb not to be removable. Removing it will be the hardest part of the whole project for me as I don’t have the heavy duty equipment needed. I first purchased my trailer to haul a riding mower between my house and my Mom’s (I keep up both yards) so I need it to be versatile. My boat racks are going to need to be removable, at least the one in the rear so I can still get the mower on and off. I was thinking about either using lumber (2x4s mainly) or pipe (either black iron or galvanized, 1/2 but not more than 3/4) to build a couple of separate racks that could then be dropped into some sort of square (for the lumber option) or round (for the pipe option) receptables attached to the trailer sides and then bolted/clamped down for travel. I would prefer the pipe option but I think the weight may make it difficult for me to remove/install the racks as I had hoped. I thought I could use ratcheting straps or some sort of turnbuckles/cables for diaganol supports, all anchored to the frames with eye bolts. Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks folks
I appreciate all the kind compliments – big smile!
Guideboatguy – My welds are so nasty I refer to them as “burnt cottage cheese” ;^) Mostly they hold…. But they ain’t too pretty, that’s for sure. A guy who has skills plus the right equipment can do a far better job than I. And yes, you are quite correct – it’s the fabrication that takes the real time, the welding happens in a (relative) jiffy.
I appreciate your kind compliments my friend.
Cooldoc – I’m happy to help answer your questions as best I can. Here goes:
Q - “What is the maximum length of boat (canoe kayak) that your rig will trailer?”
A - In the normal carrying position (two canoes abreast – side by side) it will hold 16’ canoes if the boats are centered (as seen from the side). If I place boats off-set it on the trailer (more overhang at the stern than the bow) I could easily carry a 17’ canoe/kayak. Note that I could also carry a 17’ or even an 18’ if I simply put the boat in the center of the top rack (the center as seen in plan view – from the top).
Q - What is the total distance, if you will, from ball hitch to end of the actual boat (overhang) and the length of boat? Reason: I need to see if adding for a total 7.5 inch tongue, PLUS the overhang of boat from back of trailer (i.e. total distance) will fit in my garage. My goal is to have the entire thing ready to roll, boats secured, at a moment’s notice. Would you suggest, from your experience, that the 7.5 foot total tongue length is necessary, or generously long?
A – To answer this question I placed my Swift Shearwater on the trailer – the boat is 16’2” long and was placed on the rack to one side (as if two boats were being carried side by side). Note that the rack arms (what the canoes actually sit on) are about 8’ apart from each other. The overhang (past the rack arm) of that boat is about 49” at each end. Distance from the end of that boat to the center of the ball is about 37”. Note image # 2395 at my Webshots canoe trailer album: http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2536985330092377353VZwvoX?vhost=sports That shot shows the amount of distance from the front of that boat (Shearwater) to the side of my Jeep when the loaded trailer is “folded” a bit beyond 90 degrees. There isn’t much clearance, but there is just enough to prevent a crushing problem. If I was hauling a longer boat I could either simply slide it further back or center a single boat on the rack.
Another way of looking at this: the tongue on my trailer (which sticks out a total of 7.5 feet in front of the 8’ cargo area/racks) extends about another 37” past the front of that 16’2” boat. That’s with the boat centered on the rack. Note that the boat is also sticking out beyond the rear of the trailer by about 49”.
I don’t think the 7.5’ tongue extension is overly generous. Actually it probably would have been a bit better if I’d gone for another few inches. This all depends of course on what length boats you’ll haul. The longer the tongue the more open you’ll be for hauling different length boats. FWIW, I mostly haul 14’/15’ solo canoes.
FWIW, I did all this purely be “seat of the pants” engineering, which is to say I made it up as I went along. I also didn’t have the constraints you are facing of having to make it all fit inside your garage while loaded. I might suggest that if you have length issues (fitting it all in your garage) you may need to move the boats forward for storage and then move than back (centered) for travel. That would take a few minutes… but it might be needed. Hope that all makes some sense – if not let me know.
Q - Where’d ya get the metal? I like your thought of getting it all cut before going to the local welder. I need same size metal as you used.
A – I bought my steel locally at a place called “Metaltech” in Marietta, Ohio. Another place in my area is Coleman’s in Zanesville. While one could buy online (I suppose) the shipping would eat you alive. You’ll want to find a local steel supplier – every city has ‘em. Yellow Page it. All the steel for this project cost around $300. Cutting the metal: get a metal cutting chop saw. They can be purchased for around $100 for an off-brand or another hundred+ for a brand name. You’ll also need a hand-held mini grinder (under a hundred) equipped with a grinding wheel and a flap sander head. Having a bench grinder is also handy, but not absolutely necessary. Files for some clean up of course – and a big pile of c-clamps. I also used a long bar clamp for holding the center rail in place (connects front rack to back rack). I’ll bet you’ll get on the nerves of your neighbors with all the racket you’ll make fabricating steel components in a community with covenants! Hehehe… sounds like a bit of fun to me! LOL
Q - Finally (for now, likely more later): I notice you have many angled uprights (front and back) of each boat support, plus a lengthy of iron spanning horizontally from front to back support. Necessary? I would have thought the upright supports themselves, once welded would be sufficient for 5-70 lb boats. I was even considering having them removeable so that I could use the trailer for different items if needed (I read your comment about not making it too much of a hassle. I was just hoping to make one change at end of kayaking season). Does your experience, however, show that the uprights really need that amount of angle and cross span support.
A – I loosely patterned my trailer after the Blue Mountain Outfitter’s and Mo Trailer’s rigs. There are really only three angled braces: one from the front rack to the tongue and two more from the center rail to each of the two racks. All the braces are to prevent “racking” from front to back which is where most of the stress occurs – or so my “seat of the pants” theories tell me. My thinking is that these braces dampens vibration and vibration is what could ultimately lead to failure of an assembly like this. Again, I took inspiration from the two commercial trailers I liked the looks of most.
As to making the trailer convertible for other uses. That might be a very good idea, but you’ll have to make that call. I’m in a position where I now own 4 different trailers and I use them for various tasks. That’s a great convenience for me, but it would no doubt be extreme overkill for most people). I’m a landscaper/nurseryman/farmer/woodworker/canoeist/jack of many trades. I’m often hauling my backhoes and tractors and have a crew towing lawn maintenance equipment around, etc, etc… Most people would probably find a single true utility trailer that could be used for a variety of different jobs to be most practical. …it just depends on your needs/situation and storage capabilities, etc…
Anyway, I hope some of the above helped! - Randall
Perhaps…
Perhaps you could come up with a simple rack system built of 2X4s that could be mounted and dismounted using carriage bolts and wing-nuts. That’s what I had for my last utility trailer and it actually worked just fine. The only real problem with that set up was that it took time to set up and take off when not in use. The best part was the multi-use capability of the trailer and the fact that is was inexpensive to build using simple wood parts and readily available hardware. …the downside is the conversion back and forth. Ah… life is a trade off… - Randall
Brian
Thanks for the kind compliments. My wife walked in the room as I was chuckling at the word you coined: “Arkayifie” Hehehe… We enjoyed that a bunch – & she’d be the first to tell ya that I DO get carried away! Of course now Barb will now have a new word to describe my excesses! You dog! ;^) - Randall
Mike
Thanks Mike.
I used contact cement to hold the indoor/outdoor carpet in place. Time will tell how the cement and the carpet hold up… I decided on the carpet because it was almost identical to “bunk carpet” being sold for use on standard boat trailers. The foam blocks you noticed in the pics (good eye for detail) were indeed protecting the wood rails on two of my composites canoes. That was just a “set-up” photo to see how things were working out. I had not yet installed the carpeting on the racks. While I’m reasonably sure the carpeting will work out just fine for most of our canoes (with vinyl and/or aluminum rails) I might very well continue to also use foam canoe blocks for my wood railed canoes. I’m a hopeless nutcase about keeping my wood railed composite canoes in prissy condition… I’m obsessive – but at least I fess up to it… ;^) - Randall
Thanks, Arkay.
I have to head out now, but plan to read again every word of your nice reply. Thank you.
Your time in posting these photos and answering these questions is well spent as Advice section on Pnet is archived. I am sure your experience will help many.
You should pick up a course on welding, and start your own canoe/kayak trailer company. You’d make a killing.
More later. Thanks.
Please tell Barb to feel free to use a Y
… instead of “ie”
I couldn’t decide. Enjoy!
Double dog!
;^)
Very nice trailer.
I went the other route and built my 4x7 from scratch. I am a “builder of things” and just had to do it from scratch. It took lots of time. I was given a wrecked boat trailer with a 4’ axle and 12" wheels. The frame was trashed. Bought new 750 lbs springs and hangers from Northern Tool and Supply (mail order) and 2 1/2" 14 gauge square tube for the new frame from a local steel supply company. Any medium sized town should have a steel supplier and a good one will help you choose the right materials for your project. So far the trailer has done great. It carries ladders, boats, tools, and my motorcycle. I needed a light duty, lightweight trailer since I pull it with a 4 cyl Ranger or a 4 cyl Wrangler. I would post a picture if I could.
Duggea did a nice job
Much nicer than my frankin trailer. but it got modified peice meal. but cost me next to nothing.
Wow! Nice job
Wait 'til I show Dave…he’s always wanted to build a trailer.
Arkay, I have reread your answers…
– Last Updated: Jul-22-07 7:51 AM EST –
...and thank you for them. Yes, I know what you mean about the 37 inches in front of boats to hitch, and 49 inches of boat overhang to back. Good reference for me.
I wish I could find the eBay past auction from about 3 months ago, but it is gone. A fellow was selling a kayak trailer that was by no means as nice as yours, but it was homemade and it did incorporate many ideas for the deck. I think this will be your next fun part (if you want, some would argue against complexity). The eBayer had compartments for 5 gallon fresh water bottles, and some form of electrical hookup, and even as you suggested some smaller enclosed areas--all built onto a uility trailer like ours. Although it was really "homemade" looking (unlike yours, which reflects a more refined finished product), his did have some neat ideas.
Plenty of further ways to pimp it out. A long box, for instance, padded out as a gentle place for paddles (perhaps even locked) might be an idea. Someone on the other thread mentioned it, I think, about a more open "box" of wire, material, sort of like your original trailer bed itself, that could be used to transport wet gear (e.g. PFDs, wet clothes) home so that, by the time you're home, its all wind dried and will not mold.
I also wonder, slightly, about mud and road debris getting all over the boats (moreso than would be on a high roof rack). Plus pebbles can actually ding, esp at 70 mph. I can imagine a rainy day, backroads, pulling the trailer and having one whale of a mess on the boats and the gear underneath the boats. Someone mentioned mudflaps on the pulling vehicle, which is a need, certainly. I suppose time will tell. I can see that you are appropriately protective of your nice canoes, and maybe some tarped front "cover" over the angled upright from the tongue would help on a rainy muddy day. I know, tarps flap. I am just thinking.
Thanks, Arkay. I am going to get thinking about mine, then cutting off the drop gate and hinges, step one.