And, A Good One At That. 
yup
I don’t often find myself agreeing with Jack, but the safest rough water kayak is the kayak sitting on the beach when it’s too rough to go out.
If/when you do get caught out in rough conditions, it is your skill and experience that will save your ass, and most skilled and experienced boaters do not intentionally go out in rough weather because it’s not really a wise thing to do.
boats to consider:
NDK explorer
Valley Nordkapp
Seda Ikkuma 17
seda swift 17
Prijon kodiak
CD solctice GTS
CD Sirroco
P&H cappella series
Huh
"most skilled and experienced boaters do not intentionally go out in rough weather because it’s not really a wise thing to do."
I think there are a lot of skilled and experienced boaters who would be very quick to disagree.
Also rough weather is a little hard to define as it dependes a lot on the perspective of the observer. Most skilled and experenced boaters know the difference between rough and too rough.
“Only by pushing our limits can we expand our limits.”
“Risk is necessary to growth”
Anonymous
“A ship is safe in harbour but thats not what ships are for” William Shedd
“Danger and delight grow on one stalk.”
“A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.”
English proverbs
" A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn’t.
But we do be afraid of the sea, and we only do be drowned now and again."
Anonymous
valkyrie
My BBK valkyrie handles Lake Superior fine. Sometimes it’s a struggle to keep the boat from broaching on steep following waves, but that’s not unusual. I’ve never paddled the larger BBK boats, but my guess is that they’re not that different, assuming your size is within their intended uses.
there is hope !!!
You and your friends will be glad to learn that a portion of our tax dollars go to a federal agency called the Coast Guard.
Their primary mission is to rescue people who get caught up in bad weather.
Sadly, they spend most of their time rescuing people like yourself who find pleasure in taking risks that a wiser person would not endeavor.
—
“Every man is a fool in some man’s opinion”
—
“To the wise, life is a problem; to the fool, a solution”
—
“The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way”
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“However big the fool, there is always a bigger fool to admire him.”
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“You can educate a fool, but you cannot make him think”
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Spare us
Anyone who takes more risk than I do is an idiot. Anyone who takes less risk than I do is a coward.
“you are
a turkey”
anonymous
oops, no, that was me.
i agree with whomever posted that you come to understand the answer on the boat as your skills and experience increases BUT to espouse YOUR thinking rwven, we’d all be at home in a puff of wind lest we involve the CG and if we don’t stay home then we’re wrong and foolish.
withouth having ever met me, YOU can decide what’s appropriate? you’re one smart fella - most folks wouldn’t presume to do that but you seem to have some insight.
it comes down to ME making a decision based on MY experience, knowledge and skill as to what is too rough for ME to paddle in. while the cg is on the sharp end of the stick and does have the capacity to deem any voyage as “manifestly unsafe” it comes down to ME keeping ME safe, not you or any government agency in this regard.
if i am taking appropriate precautions and weighing conditions and risk against experience and judgement…well, that sounds like the decision making process, doesn’t it?
personal responsibility…one of the things i enjoy about kayaking and being an adult.
what is bad weather?
that could mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
Many paddlers on this board thrive when bad weather brings good paddling.
Taking the advice
It is now raining outside and forecast for electrical storms so I’m still in the office as driving home in these conditions would potentially create problems for the emergency services.
So while I was stuck here I got to wondering about
“If/when you do get caught out in rough conditions, it is your skill and experience that will save your ass,” Kinda curious how to get that skills and experience without going out and practicing in rough weather?
Might be interesting to know how many rescues by CG or other emergency services involved people who regularly practice in rough conditions and how many involved people who generally avoided rough conditions but got caught out. I suspect its similar to the statistics for Mountaineering.
that’s not really so
Going out ill-prepared, significantly inexperienced or above your skill level isn’t smart. Legions of kayakers ply rough waters to enjoy paddling in it and increase their abilities. See the distinction?
Rough water…
To address the issue above about not paddling in rough water I disagree…I look for the days with small craft advisories. To me that is the first indicator that it may be a good day to go out on the water. Some people actually seek out storms and rough water, but are still safe about it.
But to address the question the poster asked…I would say we can make some inferences about his skill level and experience level. I think his question has enough information for us to make some recommendations.
This guy probably can’t go wrong with an Explorer, an Aquanaut or a Romany. Those are probably perfect for him…outstandingly seaworth boats that are easy to paddle for all skill levels. I might add the Chatham to the list but not too many others based upon my assumption that the paddler is probably not very experienced and wants something seaworthy and confidence inspring.
Matt
Matt
Rough water boats
I think there are a few boats that excel in rough water in the right hands but are kind of tender for many paddlers. But there are plenty of kayaks designed for rough conditions that are very well behaved, relatively efficient, and fun to paddle in mild conditions. For example I know people who use Tempests for beginner teaching boats.
So I think the original question is a reasonable one, since you can’t really assess a boat in rough conditions until you learn to paddle rough conditions. A little more info would be nice, to be sure. My recommendation for someone starting into rougher paddling would be to find a boat that knowledgeable people you trust consider to be good in rough conditions, that feels comfortable edging and turning on the flat and in whatever conditions you can test in, and that brings a smile to your face. There should be any number of them out there.
Good hunting.
nope …
what I’ve seen in my life are risk takers taking needless risks … sortof like practicing having a head on collision at 25 mph to better prepare yourself for the real thing at 60 mph.
Manitou & Recluse
– Last Updated: Aug-08-07 9:56 AM EST –
I've paddled with paddlers in those boats in some pretty rough conditions and like someone else said, they handled it fine in the hands of good paddlers.
What makes some paddlers feel more comfortable in rough conditions are rocker and shorter length as wilso-2 said.
Here's why: Picture a 20 ft kayak in an area where there's 3 ft peaks spaced 10 feet apart. The long boat gets bridged or held up on ends and can feel a lack of stability. A 14 ft boat with a flat bottom, shaped like a banana, sits on it's belly in the trough of the wave and you can eat your lunch there. That's the basic reason why highly rockered, flat bottom boats make their paddlers feel more comfortable.
The trade is speed (hull efficiency) and directional stability. It's not as black and white as my example and good paddlers paddle all types of boats in any conditions.
Product endorsement and advertising also is a big player in people's perception of what is supposed to be good.
ok
– Last Updated: Aug-08-07 9:04 AM EST –
The distinction is needless vs. calculated risk.
I was out this spring in the a.m. on a calm Lake MI. While I had a drysuit, pfd, vhf, etc., I was paddling solo and for my first time of the season. The water was below 40 degrees. Winds picked up and waves built to a sloppy 4' with dumping surf on shore. I decided to stay near the launch since I was alone, and when conditions worsened I got off the lake, before I reached a point where landing in dumping surf would be necessary.
Last week I went out with a friend and our trip ended up with 3'-4' following seas with a quartering chop. Actually similar to the first instance above, but I was familiar with the conditions, the water was very warm, and I had a competent partner versed in rescues.
Let's use your car premise. It would be dangerous to push your limits on public roads to get used to driving in snow and learning corrective measures (some of which can be fun). But it's a lesser risk to do the same thing on a closed course or large parking lot.
If you view risk on a sliding scale instead of an either/or option you can assess your appropriate level of risk. Get out in conditions using good judgement and increase your comfort by practicing and you reduce your risk.
Don’t forget
to look for a used plastic Skerray or Avocet.
nope
Once one begins grading risk (i.e. needless vs. calculated) you’ve crossed a line in order to rationalize risky behavior.
Quick question: does the Coast Guard practice and drill in bad weather?
Quick answer: not on purpose.
Really?
"To support those missions, training is a big part of the job as well, said Coast Guard Senior Chief Petty Officer Gordon Muse, who is the base’s top enlisted man. “If we are not doing missions, then training is very big,” he explains. “If there’s nothing else to do, then we do training.”
It’s especially important to train in bad weather, Muse said, particularly with the 47-foot heavy-weather boat that’s seen in the commercial. The boat is nearly indestructible, and designed to handle 30-foot seas and a 20-foot breaking surf.
“You want to train in the environment you’re going to be in,” he said. “In other words, you don’t want to wait until it’s 2 o’clock in the morning in a storm to be out in 6- to 8-foot Seas. So when you get the opportunity you try to go out in it.”
However, around the Chesapeake Bay, the weather is fairly good and the seas relatively calm most days. And, Harper said, the opportunities to train in rough seas are few. Even in bad conditions, the waves reach only about 8 to 10 feet, he said.
“That’s not bad,” Harper said, sounding disappointed. “You go to the West Coast and you’ve got 20- to 30-foot seas. Cape Hatteras in North Carolina has got big seas, too.”
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=25243
Artic Tern on Lake Erie
On the flip side to Ness’s boat, the tern (and Ness will attest to this) simply rides way too high in the water. The high volumn on this hard chine design is a bear to deal with in sine and swells. Go with a lower volumn (maby multichine?) if you can get away with it.