sorry… 2 seperate things
I described how I learned and progressed. BUT, I didn’t need to go through all those steps. When I was going through the progression I very rarely missed rolls. It wasn’t because I practiced a lot and built up my skill at each stage - it was because I was comfortable rolling a kayak. In fact, I actually think I rolled my kayak in the surf (a few times) before I did all of the other stuff. But, I went through the progress because I thought it was necessary - it wasn’t.
Once you can roll comfortably in flatwater there is no difference in technique. The waves aren’t as big of a factor as people make them out to be - mostly they are a non-factor.
People psyche themselves out of a roll because they expect there to be huge difference. When that happens they try to get their head out of the water, rather than trying to roll.
You will want to progress your skill on flatwater so that you do not need to open your eyes - roll by feel not by sight.
if your offside is ‘off’ then you
stop thinking in terms of offside and onside. You work on both sides until you have 2 on-sides. Problem solved.
ok, sounds reasonaable
I think what you are saying is that is someone develops a bomb proof roll on a lake then the adjustment to the ocean will be a lot easier.
That happens to be the same approach I’m taking, so thanks for clearing that up.
I could have gone to the beach today, but instead went back to the county park and practiced rolling.
I know that sounds like common sense that someone wouldn’t just head out into the ocean their first time here, but people do exactly that and get in trouble.
yep
I know from experience that there is a strong pull to practice the rolls I know, but the key to rolling in conditions is to practice (1) my weaker rolls and 2) moving from out of setup to rolling up on either side, e.g. to end disorientation. Rolling is easy: getting oriented takes time, and the less time taken the easier it is not to have to rush a roll.
SOT recovery is also…
… a bit of a different deal in textured water.
If you plastic SOT drivers have ever had a wave pick your kayak up and drop it on your head in he middle of trying to remount you know what I mean.
Way too many folks assume the flat water practice is enough with these - if they even do that. Some folk are natural water babies and hop on and off pretty much anytime/anywhere, but there’s also a lot of “I don’t need to do all that, I have an SOT” mentality out there.
Like rolling, you have to relax and work your timing with the waves. Long swell is easy, but try it somewhere with with steep reflecting waves (need not be very big, just close and disorganized - and or breaking) and it’s a different deal. Practicing in this (with onshore winds) gets very tiring very fast. Tired enough to really increase your risk level after just a few remount attempts. It will also usually result in changes to your outfitting and what gear you carry and how it’s stowed.
sot?
get a couple of thigh straps and roll it.
Paul
good point but
The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of more sheltered rivers that would be like paddling a lake. Most people around here just do that instead of open water wide rivers or the ocean.
Good luck in surf
I’ve rolled a few SOTs. Only ones I’d do that with on purpose was a Tsunami X-1, and the Rrrapido. Both craft made for surf zone. The majority of SOT (as good as they are for what they’re designed for) are plastic barges that are more like paddlable rafts, and should be treated about same for recoveries. Rolling them is pretty much a flat watter trick, and if anyone can take that to sea, well that’s impressive. Thigh straps suck for rolling (better than nothing), and really SUCK for paddling any distance. I used mine on my Tarpon as shoulder carry straps.
“Most people”…
... don't roll either, even though most who do consider it a beginner/basic skill that opens the door to other things.
Not really a big deal.
I get thrown of my Cobra Strike all the time in rough water, there is a spot where we like to play with reflected waves from heavy surf. Just climb back on. I know lot of people can’t do it, but that has more to do with fitness and lack of upper body exercise. Very few die paddling sit on tops so what does not kill them will make them better.
That’s true,
but my comments or suggestions were intended for the original poster who was asking about the difference between rolling on a lake and rolling at the coast.
My comments have been consistent with other people experience. It is more of a challenge on the coast.
I was suggesting starting in a more secluded river, because even that is more challenging than a lake. You have to factor in the tides, motor boats, oyster beds. Heck, you can cut your foot wide open at the boat landing. The tide may pull you into a bride piling.
When you get used to that move to a bigger river and it will be more challenging. I’ve noticed that 20 knot winds with quatering waves and tide take a lot of skill.
I wasn’t suggesting someone panic, not be confident when they are in rough conditions, etc. I also wasn’t suggesting not learning how to roll a kayak in this thread.
My point about the SOT folks who stay in a safe calm river is that they are having just as much fun as anyone else, especially some nit picker on the internet.
Strike is surf specific…
… more like a wave ski and meant to be rolled (with same techniques). Quite a bit less to toss around than larger SOTs. I’d put it in with the others I mentioned, and certainly not the barges.
Some links
This is to the local paddling club
you can see that they rate each trip from one star to four. First you have to take the one star to prove you can keep up, then the two, to make sure you can handle the wind and tide. (it can be quite strong)
http://www.lowcountrypaddlers.net/
The is the link to the Charleston County Parks and Recreation, who sponsor the East Coast Kayak Festival.
http://www.ccprc.com/index.asp?nid=107
They also have the same process of skill level and can offer all kinds of great classes. I met two of the instructors yesterday that were giving a three day introduction class to coastal kayaking. They even have a rolling class and advanced classes.
stars…
"first you have to take the one star to prove you can keep up…
what???
where does it say that in the website.
If I read it right: YOU are the one who rates yourself. this rating is great to make a decision based on your self assessment of your skills. I don’t understand your comment that you have to take a 1 star before you can go to a 2 star. Did not see that anywhere.
for example I have a BCU 3 star and have done 4 star training in some pretty heavy duty clapotis and “conditions” I am mostly a solo paddler who is not adverse to washing machine or confused seas environments and go out when I have the opportunity.
For me to go on a trip with the low coutry paddlers will I have to
- show my BCU card (have an ACA membership too)
- demonstrate my bow rudder and sculling draw in wind and waves?
- Be given a 10 mile loop to complete in a timely manner while all the “members” sit around assessing my form and stamina?
Have my gear checked for appropriatenes?
I’m kinda digging at you here. And I did a trip once with the Low country paddlers on the Edisto. 10 miles is absolutely nothing if you are going with the current.
to be honest, I have been thinking very seriously about getting down to Charleston and paddle some of the coast line. Only thing I have done a couple of times is put in at the folly river boat ramp, paddle the river out to the surf and waves, play around a bit and come back. Both with and against the tides. have thought a great deal of joining the Low country paddlers and still might.
Just gotta get down there for one of their paddles.
Paul
your right
rolling is a beginner skill that even experts should practice(to ensure consistancy). But its amazing how many people, including many who post here often, can't roll and don't really want to learn. For most kinds of sea kayaking, unlike white water, the need to roll is not crucial(it is however nice to know) if you always paddle with a partner who can do an assisted rescue, or in really calm water where you can do your cowboy or float recovery
lowcountry paddler stars NOT BCU stars
they are two VERY different rating systems that have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
The lowcountry paddlers’ rating system is pretty lame. For example, the LCP 3* is for “Paddlers who know they can paddle against the tide (yup), know they can keep up with club paddlers from past experience, and who have done several paddles over 10 miles.”
Brazilbrasil - anyone who has a BCU 3 star/ ACA Level 3 can easily keep up with and out paddle most of the lowcountry paddlers.
It is a social club, they don’t do club sponsored paddles in surf or open ocean. They do occasionally have ‘show and go’ trips for surfing - you don’t have to be a member of those.
Next time you are coming down to Folly let me know. We will go out and hit the surf - I know some good spots. We can also paddle out to the jetties and surf there.
ccprc is a good resource
they are a strictly ACA organization so they use the ACA levels - different from the lowcountry paddlers and BCU. CCPRC isn’t the only game in town for instruction.
There are lots of good resources in charleston for kayak and instruction, check around a bit. It is an awesome place to paddle with lots of good instructors.
brazilbrazil
I clicked on the link that explains their rating system.
Sorry you couldn't find it. It was right there at the tip of the page.
Several people here suggested that there is no diferance between kayaking on a lake and the coast.
I posted two links that illustrates that there is a rating system for coastal paddling.
I also provided a lot of other information such as building up your skill level.
Putting in at the back of Folly is a gentle area.
I was the only person to suggest building up your skill level and not just thinking the ocean is one big lake.
Two college students drown a few years ago.
I know people who head right out to the deep ocean on their first day without any knowledge of the area or weather patterns.
I don't know anyone's skill level. They may be a complete beginner. I'm only suggesting being prepared to handle those conditions.
Edit: I'm not sure that paddling on the one * is an absolute requirement before the **.
They used to not any kind of rating system, just "beginner", "intermediate" "advanced"
It's pretty laid back. They may have to have some kind of rating for their insurance policy. That's why they state that each individual is responsible for them selves. I also agree with that as well. Otherwise some people will show up without any basic skills, and expect everyone else to compensate for that. Or if they are injured from their own lack of training, they can't sue the paddling club.
That's why I posed both links.
There is no way I can assess anyone's skill level.
You can call them for their rules.
club member
Being able to roll was for me a big confidence booster knowing I am more likely to stay in and with my boat when (not if) I do go over. I like being able to explore the region between upright and upside down and benefit from improved control and stability this skill encourages. Rolling and deep bracing also provide another means to cool off, show off and occasionally lose sunglasses. I do practice rolls in a variety of conditions as they present. Same for self rescues in preparation for failed rolls. And you can roll sans skirt but not pump.
putting in at the back of Folly
is a gentle area. paddling out to the lighthouse and other areas are not.
I got the three star BCU and joined the ACA specifically because I knew there were trips that would require some sort of proof of competency. Unfortunately, I have paddled with 4 star and "intermediate and advanced" people in mild "conditions=chop and confused washing machine seas, that I was very happy I had my tow rope with and because of that i am very leery of going out into conditions with people unless I have paddled with them before. In a club environment maybe that is not as easy just due to the nature of the beast.
I have no disagreement with you about a slow moving river being different from a small pond being diferent from a large lake being different from coastal waters being different from open seas. the farthest I have been out is 5 miles and I can assure you it is very very different.
And THAT is precisely why I love Kayaking!
(with a capital K)
:)
Paul