I have 3 boats for different uses but
sometimes it is hard to decide. I recently got a Pungo 140 and it can’t be beat for flat water and comfort. I love WS phase 3 seats.Great river boat. I am 6’5"/ 230 lbs and the cockpit feels too deep to me.
My everwhere boat is Tarpon 160 SOT, which is why I think the Pungo is deep.
I have had the 160 in some nasty ocean stuff I hope to never see again down to a 12’ wide creek.At 16’ , the turns were interesting.
The last is an 18’ surf ski I may never tame.
I’ve gone through a dozen boats to get to this point and think I’m done, but my wife and friends disagee.
Anyway, a Pungo 140 is too big for your wife.
Listen
to Celia.
wow
There’s a lot of good replies and back and forth on this post. I am new to kayaking this year and in late March my friend and I purchased our first kayaks. Based on where we live and the type of water we have to travel it was recommended we go with recreational kayaks. The place we bought the kayaks from gave us many option and narrowed it down to Current Designs Solara 13.5, Pungo 140, and Jackson Tupelo 12.5. We tried many kayaks before we purchased and I can say our least favorite was the Pungo, and after talking to others on message boards we were steered clear from this craft. So, in the end he went with the Solar and I went with the Jackson. We both seem to be happy with our purchases. Bottom Line: Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, opinions of others are great. But you have to be in a kayak that you feel comfortable, safe and secure in. Best of luck in your decision.
first day in
– Last Updated: May-24-16 5:49 PM EST –
I want to do a longer reply to address everyone but I'm on my phone - just wanted to comment on the first day on the water.
We decided to take both 140s as we knew she could ha dle the 120.
On the note of paddles, we both have aqua-bound paddles.
As everyone pointed out, Celia nailed it. Our friends showed up with a Necky Manitou 13 and an Dagger Atlantis 16' sea kayak. Needless to say the Pungo was the slowest.
I really liked the Tsunami but quickly traded out for the Pungo so my wife got to try it. I was still faster than her with me in the Pungo but she mentioned the angle paddling the Pungo irritated an old shoulder injury that wasn't noticeable in the Tsunami. She tried the necky and likes it as well (aside from the seat).
I think we will be looking for another Tsunami. I'll have to do some research and see which one would be a better fit for her. That or, as everyone keeps mentioning, some faster boat that has equal stability.
Tsunami 140
I have one and it’s a very capable boat for what I do. I had it out on lake Erie in some nasty stuff and it handles well and stays dry.
My wife has a Necky Manitou 14 and it’s nice too; actually more similar than different. I like the tsunami more but often switch back and forth.
My usual paddle is a 4-10 mile lap around the harbor. Cruise speed around 4 mph average.
Note in stability
Glad you found out earlier rather than later what kind of boats will work better.
But do not judge stability by how a boat feels to you. Even at a taller height, someone your wife’s weight can feel very stable in something that would feel to you like you were trying to balance a 2 by 4. I know, I am her weight.
In the category of boats you are looking at, around 23 to 24 inch wide, you would have to make an effort to find something that would feel unstable to her after she had a little seat time. The same boat might put you into the water within 10 ft of shore, but as been said boats are designed for an intended paddler size. And you two are not the same size.
So believe the manufacturer if they say a boat that is an inch narrower than the Tsunami 140 has fine stability for your wife. They are right.
To gain the most enjoyment from
– Last Updated: May-22-16 6:15 PM EST –
paddling, imho you two should think about enrolling in some beginner paddling(kayak) lessons, wherever. You won't regret it.
Once you two gain a level of skill in balance and command of your paddling strokes...choosing that kayak for you will be that much easier.
After this weekend…
1) We definitely want to take lessons. My wife had some basic rescue lessons years and years ago. I just want to make sure I have proper form etc. We were out on the water over 6 hours this weekend and not once did I feel tired in either Pungo or Tsunami 140.
2) Aside from ‘fit’ for my wife’s kayak, we’re trying to determine what other variables are at play. For someone 5’7, would length of paddle matter much? Both of ours are 230cm. Technique also is a question, addressed by point 1.
3) I’m hooked. If it weren’t for others, I likely would have been out all day, every day this weekend. Now I just need to get my wife there 
4) Side question: do any of you dog owners bring them along? If so, how? (We don’t have dogs but our friends do and my mom is wondering the same.
@ Celia, what kayak(s) do you use and for what type(s) of water?
If your wife is paddling the Tsunami,
she might prefer a 220cm paddle, rather than 230cm.
Now to get your wife into the game…
– Last Updated: May-24-16 7:00 PM EST –
In sequence on your questions -
1) Yes to lessons, by a disinterested third party to whom you pay money. Biggest buzz killer I have seen on the water is the husband trying to take over "helping" his wife.
2) Hardly anyone paddles touring kayaks with 230 cm paddles any more, which is why you can find very decent ones cheap on EBay. Paddle length varies based on the style of paddling and the width of the boat and the size of the person. But I would not be surprised if someone took a good look at your wife in a boat like the Tsunami and recommended a 215 cm paddle. She is a bit taller than me, and if it is in the torso that means she can keep a paddle clear of knocking the boat more easily than I can. And I paddle a 205 cm for my sea kayaks.
Length of paddle matters a lot, as does weight and apt blade size to the power of the paddler. High angle paddles can be shorter than low angle paddles, if you take lessons these days oddds are high you will be shown high angle paddling. The better the fit the easier the paddle and the less likely to cause joint damage. Those $400 paddles are worth it after a few hundred thousand strokes.
3) Get her a faster kayak than yours - best advice you got above. It appears you like to drive forward and you will either need to give her a speed advantage or slow down. Or both.
4) No dogs in sit inside kayaks. If you want to bring a dog, get a SOT or a canoe.
I think my boats are in my profile, but what I use for sea kayaking is primarily a P&H Vela, then an NDK Romany for days that I need to be very conservative on safety and I still have but don't much use these days an NDK Explorer LV. Bopth of the latter two boats are too big for me in volume, but the Romany is just one of those all around flexible boats even if it isn't fast. My goal is to get my paddling back solid enough to take out the Nordkapp LV that my husband had, but for that I need to get the roll tuned back in on both sides. Still too big for me in volume, but it is a slick boat thru the water and can make up for that as long as I am not trying to break any speed records.
I paddle Maine ocean, inland lakes and rivers when not in Maine, have paddled coast of RI and CT but not in a while. Wouldn't mind getting back there next season.
If I were to buy a new boat right now, or pick up a recent used one, two on my list would be the NDSK Pilgrim boats or the smaller P&H Aries. If I was looking for a plastic boat to pick up relatively cheap to mess around in sloppy fun stuff, the smaller Wilderness Systems Alchemy. All of the above should be correctly sized for me and run a bit shorter on length than a full length major tripping boat.
If speed is an issue, you do not want to go to a boat that is high in playability. Hull shape that favors high maneuverability is a speed killer.
Paddles & Dogs
I’m 6’0", “normally” proportioned, and a high angle paddler. I use a 210 paddle (a bent shaft Werner Cyprus) on the advice of an instructor who I really trust. I think a 230 is probably quite a bit too long for your wife unless she paddles low angle and/or has a long torso.
I can just see putting a small, well behaved dog in a cockpit as big as a Pungo’s but I don’t think I’d really recommend it.
Started researching Alchemy
So I started to look at the Alchemy and found a used one for sale. Curiously, the Frontenac Outfitters website pegs the upper weight limit at 140lbs for the 14s while the 14l starts at 165lbs. Seems like a bit of a gap in their lineup.
With my wife in at around 135lbs (I guess I was a smidge conservative with my initial estimate) that doesn’t leave much wiggle room.
That detail aside, I was pretty excited by the prospect of the Alchemy as its efficiency on the site is rated 6.5 vs my Tsunami’s 5.
Now I see the Stratos which from what I can tell is similar, just with a bit more room. I have found a used Alchemy 14s but it’s a good drive away; I’d like to be sure before spending more time/gas/money on this. Unfortunately we don’t have anywhere nearby to try them out first. Of course I haven’t come across any Stratos used either…
On the used front, I see the aforementioned Alchemy 14s and a Tsunami 125, the people are asking the same price.
On the Tsunami front, Frontenac comes out and says they do NOT recommend the 125 as it’s sluggish. They prefer the 120 or 135. The 135 seems perfect to me except that it has the same efficiency score as mine, yet something I read on their site suggested it was still a bit of a step down in speed from the 140.
On the note of speed, I was reading through some comparative threads here and one commenter noted that given the Alchemy’s whitewater routes, it was nice and quick in the lumpy stuff but SLOW on flat water.
So confusing! Such contradicting information…
Ideally we would go to a place where we could test them all then scour for one used. Barring that, I have a Tsunami 125 and Alchemy 14s on the table that I could spring for if I had some confidence in the decision.
no
I know my dog well enough to know he’d rather not be stuffed into a cramped cockpit so I can feel like a good dog owner.
135
The Tsunami 135 is a small person/womens version of the 140. It would be a good match, with your wife in the 135 and you in the 140. The 125 is a large person version of the 120. Neither of you are suited for that boat.
Alchemy 14 etc
I strongly suggest you slow down and make your wife a partner in the search for what will be HER boat.
For example, on your obsession with speed. (A really common thing for persons of the male persuasion when they get into paddling) Is she as interested in that? If she is not, and paddling is partly about enjoying time on the water without watching the clock, you need to figure out how you are going to paddle with her. At the least balancing your paddling goals should be part of the conversation about buying a boat.
Your wife would be fine as far as weight goes in the Alchemy 14.
You are not getting conflicting information, you just don’t understand yet how these boats work. As I said before anything that is more maneuverable is going to be slower in terms of top cruising speed. A hull can be designed to be highly maneuverable at the cost of go-straight speed or fast at the cost of being able to turn it easily, or a compromise in both aspects.
FWIW, a guy who is usually in the super-fast cadre of local evening paddles is in an Alchemy. It is a slower hull than a number of the other boats in the group, but he more than makes up for it with his paddling.
But IMO you are too focused on only one aspect of boat behaviors. It is no fun being out on the water as a new paddler with a boat that can go really fast straight ahead when when you hit more wind than you expected amd find that you can’t get the boat turned back to shore. Even with a rudder, a really stiff boat can require edging to turn and most new paddlers are not willing to drop the edge of the boat to do it. A more maneuverable boat may be a handful to handle, but at least you can turn the darned thing.
So there are good reasons for newer paddlers to think about having boats that are kindly in terms of maneuverability.
And getting caught out in unexpected wind will happen. It happens to people who go out fully prepared with weather radios on alert and a decent understanding of the general area they are paddling. It sure as heck is going to happen to someone new. Ma Nature just has that kind of sense of humor.
The Tsunami 125 is billed as a boat for a large paddler on Wilderness Systems’ site. As has been repeated above, your wife is a small paddler. The 125 is a horrid idea for her, she would be pushing way too much volume and width. The Tsunami 135 is slightly shorter than the 140 hence statistics may make it a bit slower, but it is the only properly fitted boat for her in that line.
If you are going to insist on pulling the trigger between the Alchemy 14 and the Tsunami 125, the choice for your wife is the Alchemy. There is one risk here - the Alchemy is one of those perfect boats to both give beginners confidence and give people with a high level of skills a boat they can really play with. If she gets comfortable being over on edge and starts messing around with it, she could smoke you in terms of learning skills.
Thanks again for all the replies.
@gnatcatcher - Yes, that’s why I’m attracted to the 135. We watched a review of someone shorter than her but seemed to come away impressed. From the start I thought it would be a decent match except for the earlier comments of getting her into a faster boat. Thanks for the clarification on the 125. I think I was confused because it’s a small woman selling it, saying she was perfectly happy with it etc. etc.
@Celia - I’m in no race. We have boats. We’ve been out on the water, I just want us to make the right choice for her as the Pungo/Tsunami matchup clearly isn’t perfect… but with me in the Pungo, it works for now.
I’m simply seeing what’s available, used, in my area and if something comes up that’s a fit, you have to move on it or else that opportunity is lost.
Haha, the only reason I’m “obsessed” with speed is because it was previously mentioned that she should be in a faster boat than me. After being out on the water and me paddling a few times, stopping and waiting for her to catch up (with me in the Pungo and HER in the Tsunami) yes, the evidence points to the fact that she needs a faster boat than me.
My reference to conflicting information was simply “Keep both Pungos” “Get the Tsunamis”. Of course they’re both great boats but the trick is getting a pair that works for us.
Also, she is very involved in the choice. I’m just the one spending more hours in front of the computer…
I get that something designed for speed will be less maneuverable. What I don’t yet have a firm grasp on are the characteristics that lend themselves to one or the other. I gather that the Alchemy being more of a “rocker” design may be a tad more sluggish on flat water but consequently can be more maneuverable and more fun when things get a bit lumpier.
We watched the dagger promo video for the Alchemy and she was put off by the rougher waters they were on. “We won’t be doing that!” Which for right now is true.
After being out on the Pungo myself, the very reason I would like to at least see her in a Tsunami line is for those cases where the weather turns on us. I want us to both have a fighting chance.
In conclusion, I’ve ruled the Tsunami 125 out and am puzzled about the Alchemy. I don’t want to go out of my way (drive 6+ hours round trip) for another boat that doesn’t suit her.
That said, I would be happy for her to be in a kayak that will grow with her. I don’t know how far she will want to pursue elevating her skills but it doesn’t hurt to not be limited by your craft.
@kfbrady - thanks for the input on paddles. Seems no one wants the 230cm which is why they keep coming our way
@slushpaddler - fair enough lol. My mom for example won’t go anywhere without hers. We’re taking her out in the Pungo 120 today to see if her little JR likes the view from the water.
The dog lived
We got out last weekend - my mom’s first time in the Pungo 120 with her and her JR. It was like he had been doing it his whole life! With the console off there was more than enough room and everyone was happy.
Early on, BigandSmall mentioned the Tempest 165. I hadn’t considered a perforamcen/sea kayak until someone recently asked me why I hadn’t.
The first reason was cost, but it may well be worth it in the end.
To I spent a good chunk of time researching the Zephyr 155 vs Tempest 165 and actually found someone within a 2 hour driving radius that has both in stock and will let us try them out. If it weren’t for the fact that we have company, that could have happened tomorrow. Maybe said company would want to try one out too
Anyway, the search continues for the perfect fit for her. The best analogy I’ve heard so far is that my wife in a Pungo 140 would be like trying to wear a size 16 shoe haha. Fair enough.
The countdown is on 'till our week+ long camping trip so ideally I’d like to get this behind us while still making the right choice.
From what I’ve read thus far, the Zephyr is more nimble thanks to the full rocker which in turn, I guess like the Alchemy, makes it “slower” on flat water.
I guess my question is, slower than… me in my Tsunami 140?
Another person recently brought up the Necky Eliza but it’s even MORE expensive! Decisions, decisions…
PFD for the dog
Just my 2 cents to make sure the happy sailing pup has a PFD also. Even the best swimming dog can tire easily. As a service dog user I am pretty determined to get my dog the gear that best suits her. For best dog float coats I would suggest either the Ruffwear Float Coat or the Kurgo PFD. As with anything though, the most important thing is a good fit. The two I mentioned are a bit more cut back to give a dog better air ventilation but still provide lots of float. I have also heard of many paddlers who bring their dogs putting a memory foam bath mat or other “tacky” surface on or in the boat for doggy grip and comfort.
Note, I still have to introduce my small dog to canoeing but he is a sinker and can be a nut job. (Gotta love a Frenchie.). As much as I love my service dog I can’t fathom how to safely put her in the same craft as me given that she is a Great Dane. I will have to cross that bridge once I start camping on my paddling trips.
extra kayak
Keep the extra - I have found that having an extra kayak allows me to invite friends who don’t want to pay $60 a day to rent. This way I get my buddies hooked on kayaking - they often buy a boat after going out on my reserve boat
Updates…
@PalominoMorgan - thanks for the pfd suggestions. My mom already has one for her JR but I don’t know what it is. I like the idea of more ventilation for them.
I was trying to figure out what could give him a bit more traction. We went out yesterday for a good 3 hours. She brought an inflatable pillow that sat on an extra life jacket with a towel. It worked but still a bit cumbersome. The first time we went he pranced around the bow (when we stopped for snacks) but he doesn’t have much traction up there. Something along those lines - and water resistant - would have him sunbathing up there all content like.
@mazer - I’d love to, however that’s not really in the budget, especially with the kayak we’re eyeing for her. Good news is, friends of ours not too far from the water have 2 spares so we often nab them for that very reason!
As an update,
-> My mom is very happy with the Pungo 120 (as is her dog).
-> I plan to sell the Pungo 140. While I personally like it, I do prefer my Tsunami 140. Selling it means we can spring for the Tempest 165 for my wife. In general, I haven’t read anything but good things about it. We have a deposit on one now, should be picking it up next weekend!
Then finally, all that’ll be left is enjoyment & developing our skills on the water!
I’ve been out every weekend since May long run and I’m loving it!