I think N.T. has gone to perform more
definitive experiments. I have some in mind also. I think it is critically important to find out how 303, McNett, and Armorall stand up to water, because if they are washing off in the first half mile of paddling, we are being cheated and should file a class action suit against the companies.
I think we >can< assume that paddlers saying they put 303 on “a couple of times a season” should reconsider.
Yes and I’ve come to the conclusion
– Last Updated: May-14-07 6:29 AM EST –
that people who think that 303 does not wash off are the exact same armchair experts that never put their boats in the water. In that case it will last a good long time. Also they never have to worry about refurbishing their boats because they never use them. I know a few of those types.
But you've got me thinking, It's going to be a nice day here, hot sunny. I think I will do a photo experiment by spraying some 303 on some poly plastic and let it set out in the sun all day. Later I'll put some water on it and photograph the results and show you what you can't seem to see (need new glasses?)LOL
303
I’ve been using it and yes, it washes off.
Does it pollute our waterways when it comes off?
Does it offer any real UV protection?
I use it for UV protection/scuff ‘camouflage’ on our ABS boats and as a polish on our composite boats. I’ve been maintaining a family fleet of canoes with 303 to the tune of about 2 quarts of the stuff a year. Yeah, I want UV protection for our much used boats (we paddle 50-60 days a year) and I like things looking “spiff”. But I don’t want to be the captain of the Exxon Valdese…
I think it’s time for some hard facts on this product. Many manufacturers recommend it – but is it useless for UV protection? …and even worse… is it an environmental bummer?
good morning Randal
Thank you for noticing that 303 washes off. It’s hard not to see that if you use it. For those who can’t admit that I’ve set up a little test. I sprayed an old poly coffee container lid and a plastic mirror with 303 and wiped off the excess. I’ll let that cook all day in the sun while I’m at work. Later I’ll add some water and we’ll see if it turns into the milky mess that I think it will.
Thanks again…Mr Wizard
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Indy425/different%20stuff/303testII.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Indy425/different%20stuff/303test.jpg
Hey Norb
Good morning to you! I think you’ll need your pointy hat and the long flowing robe for the experiments – ya need to dress the part ya know! ;^)
Penetrol
Penetrol is a petroleum distillate mixture that includes “Stoddard solvent” and benzine. Though environmental testing hasn’t been extensive, some of the ingredients in Stoddards can cause cancer.
A link: http://tinyurl.com/243784
The chemical composition of Penetrol and Marine Penetrol are identical. It’s only the packaging and price that are different.
I’ll say it again, I would be very hesitant to treat a canoe with Penetrol.
another test?
Apply it to 3 pieces of cheap red plastic like a tide bottle. One of them, just spray it on and let it dry. Another one, follow the directions for application, but then rinse it with water to simulate boat usage. The third would get nothing. Then set all three out in the sun.
I don’t have any of the stuff, or I’d try it.
Well, it’s because I see local
applications of 303 still darkening the hull after more than one trip that I have concluded the stuff is still there. And, as I said, the bottom of the hull stays slippery for a while even after the boat has been in the water.
I’m planning to put cross stripes of 303, Armorall, and McNett on my boat, and see whether those stripes remain visible on the bottom.
I’m prepared to be disappointed by 303 et al. I just don’t expect to be >totally< disappointed.
Arkay, do you recall what evidence
was presented that Armorall is an environmental bummer? I say this because Armorall’s formulation appears to have changed over the years, and boaters may have been avoiding a useful product because of suburban legends.
The current formulation of Armorall leaves a >dry< finish compared to the slippery/greasy feel of unpolished 303, and my limited experience suggests the Armorall is staying on the boat at least as well.
I’m glad that you wiped off the excess
per the instructions this time. Please do use it per the instructions or don’t bother experimenting at all.
I thought that previous threads on 303 pointed out that it chemically bonds with the material it is appplied to and anything that comes off is excess and not needed for protecting the boat anyway.
It seems that some people just spray it on and spread it around and don’t actually spend a little time wiping it dry with clean cloths. If you leave excess on the boat, of course it will come off in the water.
Armor-all good/bad???
What was written at this forum some time back was that Armor-all supposedly contains silicon which is released in the water. 303 was claimed to be environmentally friendly. Some board members also claimed that Armor-all did not do a good job of UV protection/ or not as good a job as 303. I have no evidence one way or another on any of this. I’m not well schooled in chemistry… don’t know didley from pidley… I just want a product that inhibits UV, makes my boats shine a bit and doesn’t leave polluted water in my wake.
If Armor-all’s current formula meets these goals I’m all for it. Matter of fact I’m, for ANY brand that meets these goals.
OK fellas the results are in…
Just got home from work, the 303 dried in the sun all day 9 hours. I put a tablespoon of water on the poly lid and a little on the mirror and this is what happened. No shaking or stirring. If you still can’t grasp this try it your self. Worst part is that you just don’t know what that stuff is, it will trail your boat for hours.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Indy425/different%20stuff/303result.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Indy425/different%20stuff/303res.jpg
Question
Was your coffee sunburned?
Reply From Flood
Here is what I got back from Flood. The wash off vs. weather away part is helpful – to me anyway.
“Dear Customer,
Thank you for contacting The Flood Company.
Penetrol will not ‘wash off’. In time, it will weather away.
We cannot make any claims on our products being harmful to the
environment.”
303 Pollution?
Does 303 work for UV protection? I only have my own anecdotal evidence that items I coat with 303 show no signs of UV damage whereas similar materials degraded rapidly before I discovered 303. Does 303 wash or wear off? Yes it does over time. However, the amounts that get into the water are miniscule especially if you follow the directions and wipe off all the excess that you can. Less than half an ounce will coat my entire canoe, then I wipe most of that off before I put it in the water. I have a clear conscience knowing that whatever trace pollution my canoe adds to the environment in a year’s time is less than what a petroleum powered craft (particularly jet skis and 2 cycle outboards) add in 5 minutes of operation.
Non Toxic ???
Why don’t you get a plastic bottle coat it with 303 wipe it off let it dry and put it into a gallon fish bowl with two or three Zebra fish.
I’ll place a bet on how non-toxic it is.
303…
By NT’s tests it would appear that 303 does indeed float off in water. This is also observable by the fact that canoes coated with this product have noticeably less sheen after a float or two. …at least that’s what I’ve noticed on my boats.
I continue to have questions about this product:
If applied according to directions (all excess wiped off – dry) are there any negative environmental issues related to using this product on a watercraft?
Exactly was IS that milky stuff left in its wake??? Are we talking some sort of simple vegetable oil or some sort of nasty Teflon/C8 or silicon based goop?
Does this product actually check UV degradation or does it simply temporarily shine up a dull surface and fool the eye?
We store our canoes indoors in a purpose-built structure that allows zero light intrusion (no windows). The only UV exposure our boats face is during transportation on a car/truck roof or on a trailer and of course while on the water. Still at least one of our boats (usually 3) is exposed to UV at least one day a week pretty much year-‘round. Obviously I’m not going to stop paddling to protect my boats from UV!!! But I wonder if I really even need to be concerned about applying a UV inhibitor at all?
I probably won’t be going back to Armor-all due to the silicon that it is alleged to release on the water. Now I (obviously) question the “greenness” of 303 – the manufacturer won’t admit to what’s in the stuff and that raises my eyebrows.
Bottom line: Are there UV protecting/sheen enhancing products on the market for watercraft that are environmentally safe? - Randall
why not test 303s effectiveness?
It would seem easy enough to do. I don’t use it, maybe I should. But the price has always held me back.
There are multiple things to prove or disprove about this product. So far we have evidence that it produces a sheen in water.
Does anyone have a junk yak?
If you’ve got an old yak or canoe try this:
using some masking tape simply make two same-size boxes side by side with 4 strips of tape.
Leave one box alone - coat the other with 303. Make a third if you like and test another product.
Place boat in sun and get back to us in 90 days.
Proprietary Ingredients
Checked the MSDS for the product and it lists the ingredients as proprietary. Other statements are benign, then you get to the environmental section and it states:
“The manufacturer has not reported detailed studies on the environmental fate of the
material. However, prudent practice would dictate the material not be allowed to enter
the environment.”
They haven’t studied it, but are unsure enough to say we shouldn’t let it into the environment. And before everyone jumps I work in the environmental protection field, understand how to read an MSDS, and realize that is standard “legalize” to cover themselves. But if they market a product (it appears to have been developed for aerospace) for use on watercraft don’t they have a corporate responsibility to be sure.
Randy