Single vs. Double Blade
Double blade beats single blade for speed only over short distances, if then.
Double blades are heavier, and the out of water blade is swinging around in the air causing drag.
The only thing double blades are faster at, always, without exception, factual, and not arguable in any way, is their speed at wearing you out.
40 pounds of canoe can get you a speedy kevlar solo like a Bell Magic.
Maybe but lots of skill/other
factors in play. My Wen Vag KUL at 30# with a looong and pretty light WRC Greenland stick runs well with many average cruising yaks all day, and I’m a pretty old dog. Some very light carbon euro doubles and GPs coming out too. Most euro doubles can be feathered to reduce resistance. Wind over 10 gets tough with the light canoe though especially on the quarters. Best to borrow and try a bunch of combinations to see what works for YOU in various conditions. Just thoughts, R
actually there have been studies
and somewhere on solotripping.com there is a scientific reference to speed over the course of a day single vs double.
Seems the weight of the double is a hindrance. A pack canoe of course will never weigh as much as 40 lbs
Historically paddled with double blades many can be paddled with singles as savvy makers make something in the forties for straight sticks…
Double works
I have a Bell Magic and I am no stranger to canoes and kayaks both.
The Bell will certainly go faster with a double bladed paddle. For how long, I am not sure, but if I were in any sort of race I would take the double, and maybe a single as well for variety/spare. I agree that the single might be better over the long haul, but it might not.
In a tandem, I think things might be different. Also, in solos with differing tracking abilities it might make a difference - i.e. it would be inefficient to paddle a highly turny boat with a c stroke all day.
try hit and switch
with a single… and a double blade over the same course…say 20 miles. And if we had a measurement gizmo of work expended…and a Tired-O-Meter…
I appreciate everyones experience as a fellow single and double blader.
Sure doubles work but not for speed per se. IMO they shine on the sea where you may need to low brace right and left almost at the same time.
Such a thing as too light?
I’m pretty sure John Winters told me once, in an e-mail about kayak design, that a very light kayak is easily shoved about in rough water. I guess that’s a performance difference.
I always found that doubles…
were for sprints, single blades were for long hauls. Actually, the only time I use a double blade is when paddling upstream in class 1 rivers, where you have to maintain momentum while handling varying current speeds and directions going up the faster water areas (and even then you can’t go up really fast riffles, you need to pole them or walk the canoe up them). Sit and switch with a single blade, going downstream in the same rivers, is almost as fast through a single pool, and just as fast and much less tiring over a length measured in miles.
10’ kayak vs 14’ canoe
Many great responses–thanks. My kayak is a Victory Blast (used to be WS Critter). I want more speed, but not a lot more weight. At 65, I don’t pick up 70 pounds like I used to. Solo canoes I am looking at are Mohawk Solo 14 and Odyssey, Wenonah Vagabond, Clipper Packer, and if I could find a 14’ Hornbeck used, I would go that direction. Bell Merlin or Yellowstone Solo would be great, too. I have a limit of 45 pounds and $1000–unfortunate, but necessary. First paddled a tandem as a teenager, and many kayaks since. If speed is nothing, I’ll use my Hornbeck 10, or if in rough situations, then my Blast. But it seems a 14’ canoe and a light double paddle could go farther in a 2 hour trip than one of my ducklings.
10’ kayak vs 14’ canoe
Many great responses–thanks. My kayak is a Victory Blast (used to be WS Critter). I want more speed, but not a lot more weight. At 65, I don’t pick up 70 pounds like I used to. Solo canoes I am looking at are Mohawk Solo 14 and Odyssey, Wenonah Vagabond, Clipper Packer, and if I could find a 14’ Hornbeck used, I would go that direction. Bell Merlin or Yellowstone Solo would be great, too. I have a limit of 45 pounds and $1000–unfortunate, but necessary. First paddled a tandem as a teenager, and many kayaks since. If speed is nothing, I’ll use my Hornbeck 10, or if in rough situations, then my Blast. But it seems a 14’ canoe and a light double paddle could go farther in a 2 hour trip than one of my ducklings.
Watch paddleswap
www.paddleswap.com
I saw a 14 foot Hornbeck there albeit a few days ago (didn’t go looking for it today) and every so often reasonably priced older Kevlar boats pop up.
I have three used boats in the 30 lb range…so light and used may match your budget.
Wenonah Vagabond
– Last Updated: Feb-29-12 4:14 PM EST –
The Wenonah Vagabond gets its share of criticism here for being rather "pedestrian" among solo canoes, but it's quite fast, especially with a double blade. I used to have one, and for a Royalex boat of no particular specialalty in its design, it really moves along nicely. I have a Mohawk Odyssey 14 which I love, but it's not nearly as fast as the Vagabond. If you are looking for a little extra speed and can't find a boat with a "nicer" speedy design, you'll probably like the Vagabond well enough. By the way, I replaced the Vagabond with a Bell Merlin II, and that's even faster (though it might only be because it's not Royalex).
By the way, my Royalex Vagabond weighed 43 pounds. I think my Odyssey 14 weighs about 47 pounds but I can't remember for sure (I do know it's noticeably heavier than the Vagabond was).
Oh by the way, since I posted some info earlier in this thread about hull speed, I'll point out that the Royalex Vagabond, which is 14 feet long (not 14.5' like the composite models) is the same length as the Odyssey 14, so the two boats should have the same effective top speed. However, at normal speeds, substantially slower than hull speed, the Vagabond takes less effort to move and that's why I say it's "faster". With reasonable paddling effort, it will go faster than the Odyssey 14.
another option?
Respecting the statement of $1000 being the limit of “new money” there is another possible option. If you have other things you could sell (most of us have too much “stuff”) you might be able to raise $800-$1000 by selling “stuff”. Take this $800-$1000 and add the $1000 you think you can presently afford and you should be able to buy a used light weight and fast canoe. I love the Rapidfire but there are many other options in fine canoes that could be purchased used for $1500-$2000 with a bit of searching and some driving.
Dave
My Curtis Lady Bug is much more
efficient and less tiring for me than my ~ 9’ Perception Keowee 1.
The Lady Bug is 13’8" with a water line of closer to 13’.
I am much less tired at the end of a group river trip these days when paddling the Lady Bug solo canoe than I used to be in the Keowee 1 recreational kayak.
Something to keep in mind with this comparison is that the group river trips I participate in with my Lady Bug are now mostly populated with recreational kayaks, which tend to be a bit slower than the trips I used to go on, which were populated with mostly tandem canoes.
It’s definitely easier for me to keep up with a group of recreational paddlers in recreational kayaks while paddling my Lady Bug or Yellowstone Solo, than it used to be for me to keep up with tandem canoeist in my Keowee 1 recreational kayak or my old American Fiberlite 12’x31" tandem canoe.
Which solo canoe you’re in and which 10’ kayaks the others are in will also effect the speed balance, as well as how good the paddler of the 14’ solo canoe is vs the paddler of the 10’ kayak.
The results will be different for every individual.
You would likely find the Vagabond
or the Packer faster & more efficient than your Blast. Probably also the Yellowstone Solo. Maybe not the Odyssey.
Used Packers are less easy to come by than used Vagabonds, so that may be the way to go if you have a choice of those two. I’d likely go with the Packer. The reviews say that it is pretty quick, but I haven’t paddled one. I have seen a few Packers used on some pretty shallow and twisty creeks, and they seemed to do fine.
I’ve only paddled a Wenonah Vagabond once on a lake on a breezy day and it handled the wind much better than the royalex Yellowstone Solo or fiberglass Mad River Slipper that I compared it against that day in the same conditions. I was using a single blade paddle, rather than a double blade paddle. A lot of lake and river miles have been enjoyably paddled in Vagabonds.
Have fun in whatever you end up buying.
Wenonah Sandpiper might also be a
good option, if you can find one, since they’re not made anymore.
Many people paddle them with a kayak paddle.