windy
it sounds like wind is the deciding factor in you wanting to switch to kayaking, however, you also said you’d rather not have a rudder, a skeg if you “had to”. well, rudder or skeg are your primary aid in countering wind while on the water so you may have to settle for one of them.
you can offset the effects of wind with proper stroke, but having gone with and without, using the rudder/skeg makes things much easier.
$1500 should get you a very nice kayak.
don’t know where you live but mountainman outdoors has some of the best prices around. they also have a really good website with updated prices.
Thanks-specifics?
I camp in a hammock and use a smll stove-no poles,but Sounds like I might need a sea kayak anyway?Three I have comsidered were the P+H Cappela16’6",Venture Skye16’7" and the Old town Cayuga 16 all have skags.Doe you have any others you would recomend? They all are a little heaver than I would like.
Thanks,Turtle
Outfitters in WNY
Bay Creek and Oak Orchard are two more in Rochester. Of the two, Bay Creek has access to better water for test paddles. Unfortunately their fall sale was a couple weeks ago.
Capella, Venture, Cayuga
– Last Updated: Oct-26-07 4:16 PM EST –
By and large the Old Town will be heavier on primary stability and lighter on secondary than the Capella, the Venture is probably somewhere in the middle.
Re the Capella, is it one with a number on it like 163, 167 etc, or is it a non-numbered older Capella? If it's the older non-numbered one, I wouldn't suggest that you buy it until you've tried it in wind. The Capellas prior to the numberred ones weren't great trackers - they improved the tracking greatly when they came out with the 163 and the 167.
I agree with above - if wind is the causitive problem, you should get a boat with a tracking device. Whichever the boat happens to come with will likely work for the lakes you will be on, rudder or skeg, but you want something.
I'd try to demo a Wilderness Systems Tempest if I were you - maybe you'd be the 170. Just a great all-around boat. You just need to make persistent use of drybags if you are out in really sloppy conditions - the hatches aren't always the driest.
For lightweight, you may also want to give a look to the Hurricane Tracer series or Swift kayaks. The latter uses older plumb bow designs that don't ring my bell for a boat, but they are light and track well and price out quite competitively. They may be a good fit for your purposes.
fish or cut bait
i’m not so sure about the necessity of going to a 17 footer, especially for the adk, but that’s a personal decision. know that the longer the kayak, the more efficiently it paddles. it’ll also hold more gear. but that added length adds weight and cost, too.
at a minimum, i think you should look for a kayak with 2 bulkheads (for storage,) a rudder or skeg (skeg takes up more room in the rear bulkhead because it needs to retract into the hull,) and at least 14 foot long.
to give you a frame of reference, i have a necky looksha sport, 14’4". i was on a much tighter budget than you so i bought the year before’s model, still “new”, for $690. i use it about 2 or 3 times a month and have taken it on a 3-day kayak camping trip in the adk. i ended up bringing around 70 lbs. of gear on the trip (i know, i pack like my wife) and had no problem with it. i love it and have no desire to get a more expensive one.
the truth is the more you hang around here, the more opinion you’ll get. you can also demo kayaks till you’re blue in the face, but at some point, you gotta decide. so instead of looking indefinately, finalize your list down to a handful, demo them. if one of them stands out, buy it and don’t look back.
you just gotta know that you made the right decision based on your budget and what’s available to you at that time. sure, if you demo 20 more, you’ll probably find others you like, but i think that’s a never ending cycle.
Why not pack canoe??
These canoes are designed for just your needs and weight 18-25 lbs depending on the one you buy:
Vermont Canoe Tupper (designed by Robbie Frenette of Tupper Lake, owner of Raquette River Outtfitters in Tupper Lake)
Placid Boat Words Rapidfire and Spitfire
Hornbeck lots of models
All utilize double blades for paddling, load easily (because they are canoes, no need for wheels), light weight, and much more immune to wind then your canoe.
By the way, what canoe do you have now?
Capella 166 & 160
– Last Updated: Oct-26-07 9:42 AM EST –
Celia,
The 166 (16'7") & 160 (16'4")are the CoreLite Rotomolded plastic Capellas. Good stiffness to the material as it's a 3 layer construction and quite forgiving of rocks. Behave much the same as the 161 or the 167 but not in composite.
The Tupper would also be a fine & fun choice. Up to a 500lb. load capacity might turn you into a luxury camper instead of the Go-Light camper you've been though. ;)
See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com
Dude, here’s what I now use…
I live in the same region, and am almost the same height and weight. And I have had all the same canoe and carry-from-the-car hassles. (In fact, I detest anything over 12 feet.) I also like good quality at a low price. If you don’t need to go hardshell or supertrac fast, but you still wanna “cut wind” and fish, then check out an IK like a Stearns Cordova:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKPXmnxkOSo - 69k
Nice to hear
– Last Updated: Oct-26-07 10:37 AM EST –
I wasn't sure if the 160 had fallen off the end of the earth - heard about it but haven't seen one.
The caution I issued was based on an older Capella-Capella, from before any numbers, that is around locally. While it is plenty of fun sideways it just hasn't gotten good reviews for wanting to go straight from more advanced paddlers as well as beginners.
Adirondack pack canoe or double blade
– Last Updated: Oct-26-07 2:53 PM EST –
I would look at getting a double blade for your solo canoe. 240 ought to do if you are paddling a dedicated solo.
The canoe allows you more easily to do some portages if you want and load really easily. Sure you can kayak too but I personally think its overkill. When the deck is really needed, the water will be hard there.
However on Little Tupper in lousy weather we in canoes were loading faster than the kayaks..
just got home...also did some investigating over from Rock toward Lila..the landing would have been over our heads in a yak (which I do have)
Placid Boatworks is having a sale..if you want the best of both worlds..I just adopted a Rapid Fire because its fast and I want to use it on bigger water than LTL or Lows.
If their boats are out of your price point, Hornbecks are an extremely popluar sit on the bottom canoe and double blade. They do reduce the windage too as does anything that gets you low. Plus if you want to portage someday to the Oswegatchie, you are all set.
But we did fine with regular solo canoes even though the evil wind god was up..with a double blade that is.
Now the laundry..the worst part of any outing!
Turtle! You HAVE to
come to Raystown next year and try out Placid Boatworks Rapidfire and other “Fire” series solos (they have the integrated gunwales systems). I was thinking they’d be exactly perfect for what you describe.
Or next time you are in the ADKs, go see Charlie Wilson at Placid Boatworks.
P.S. Turtle, you can borrow
my Necky Eskia to take camping if you want to give it a try. It is big – 16 ft. 4 inches, and weighs about 65 lbs, but you said you won’t be portaging. I have had it on windy Bog River (and windy Lake Erie, etc.) and it is fine to handle in the wind. It also has pretty good storage capacity in the fore and aft hatches. I have not camped out of it myself, but have been told it is suitable for that use.
Give me a call or shoot me an email, but you certainly could borrow it for your next trip if you want to try camping out of a kayak.
Doubleblade
If you just want more efficiency in the wind you might try using a doublebladed paddle before switching boats. Look at it this way, you’ll need to buy one anyway if you get a kayak. For the typical solo canoe a 240cm paddle would probably be a good length to demo first.
Thanks,I bought one
Thank you all for your great help.I already doubble paddle at times and own a Hornbeck.I demoed a lot of boats till I was tired and recieved a lot of advise from sales people and costomers an paddlers I ran into.I ended up buying a Necky Zoar sport which was not even on my list.It is very roomy and comfortable(Great seat) which I descovered I need.but surprisingly for it’s length and width was to my estimation nearly as fast as anything I paddled including some 16’6" boats.It has a rudder which I didn’t want,but fortunatly it was windy when I tried boats out and I found most skegs didn’t work as well.I worry about the rudders vulnerabity when loading and I wish the boat was lighter and am working on a loading system to ease the weight.The price was great also and pretty color(cloud).
Thanks again,Turtle
Failed experiment
I have paddled my new kayak(Necky Zoar Sport) 3 times on a windy lake locally and although the speed and tracking were all I hoped for it kills my back.I tried all the many adj. options of the very comfortable"extra comfort seat" with no releaf.Now I guess I will have to sell the boat and paddle at a loss and chalk it up to experience and use my canoes and work around the wind.
Turtle
Probably can be corrected - try this
– Last Updated: Oct-31-07 10:21 AM EST –
The seated position was something that I thought was worth some extra consideration given that it is so different... but there may be an easy cure for you. The comfy seat comments lead me to suspect that you are leaning back into the seat back, or backband, whatever they have in the Zoar.
Don't do that. You want to be positioned on your seat bones, if anything a little forward. Try taking the boat out with a thermarest pad or something behind your back to help hold a very upright position and see if it makes a difference.
Just to note - you might have somewhat tight hamstrings from your other paddling. If they are tight enough, it'll tend to pull your lower back into a round. You may need to play with how your legs and feet are placed to be able to keep your torso erect.
Also - are you rotating your torso with the stroke or sitting back and pulling? The latter will eventually give you low back pain, along with some other issues. The forward stroke in a kayak should have a lot of torso rotation, preferably continuing right down thru your hips. That will almost always make the back pain go away unless there is some past injury or the boat is otherwise fitting in a way that doesn't facilitate that happening.
Don’t give up …
Many boats have seats that are uncomfortable for various body styles. It is likely that a few bolts hold the seat in place, including the seatback. Take the entire contraption out (you can always replace it later if you decide to sell the boat) and try sitting on some foam pads or installing a pre-carved foam tractor shaped seat (Redfish Kayaks) and a backband (Snapdragon and many other companies make nice ones).
~wetzool
Update
I tried celias’s excellant suggestions-thanks!,but they only made a 50% difference.There wasn’t a moment I didn’t wish I was in my canoe.I’ll try to sell the kayak and paddle and continue a confirmed solo canoer.Maybe keep my eye out for a deal on a hard tracking lake canoe like a Paregrene.
Thanks,Turtle
He said 50-55 lbs
Hurricane Aquasports Tracer comes in at 46 lbs and $1495.