I've never rented from those places, though I dare say Rutabaga is a huge exception in the world of such shops, as there probably aren't even half-a-dozen like it in the whole country.
Carl's fleet keeps growing since he moved several years back, but the selection that's on hand can be pretty limited, and it's kind of a crap shoot in terms of what you might find there at any given time, what with all the very old used boats that he keeps finding. I just checked his website and I see that he does carry one brand of good-quality kayaks. I'd be surprised if they are part of the rental fleet, but I could be wrong.
Several years ago I stopped in a paddling shop that, in thinking about it, could have been Chequamegon Adventures. It was in that area and they were primarily a rental place, but I've deleted mentioning what I found there since I can't be sure of the name of the outfit.
All that said, I did check into renting a canoe from Rutabaga about ten years ago, but I didn't because their policy at the time didn't allow taking boats anywhere except off their own dock. If that's still the case, that would mean that for the average person who would have to drive most of a day just to get to the place and would therefore be short on time, renting wouldn't even make sense. It would make far more sense to make the trip with the purpose of test paddling several boats, which you can do for free, and which of course is a pretty standard recommendation when shopping at any paddling shop. And how far away does the average person live from a good paddling shop? I'm guessing pretty far, because people come to Rutabaga from two and three states away.
The Nantahala Outdoor Center (NOC) will allow you to demo boats on the Nantahala. I believe you can take them out on the stretch of the river just opposite their rafting center and outfitters store for an hour or so for free. You can rent demo boats to take down the entire river if you prefer.
Endless River Adventures is another kayak shop a mile or so upstream that sells kayaks and sometimes some used boats on consignment. I know that they used to allow you to demo boats out on Fontana Lake, but I don't know if they will let you take them down the river.
There is an outfitter on the Cartecay River in northern Georgia called the Cartecay River Experience. I have never been there. They apparently rent kayaks on the Cartecay but I don't know what type.
I believe Rock Creek Outfitters over by the Ocoee will let you demo some boats but you would have to check.
Hiwassee Outfitters over on the Hiwassee in Polk County Tennessee rents sit on top whitewater kayaks (Torrents) for use on the Hiwassee.
Places that allow you to demo boats are going to have new boat designs that they hope to sell you. If you want to try out some older boats, your best bet is to join a local club. Most paddling clubs have some type of spring or early summer paddling school and often have rendezvous sometime during the year. An example is the Carolina Canoe Club's "Week of Rivers" in early July. At these events there are usually always some older boats offered for sale, often at pretty cheap prices.
classes I would suggest that a good start at learning some of the skills would be to go to YouTube and Vimeo and watch a lot of videos–the ones about paddling that is. Be especially sure you learn the body mechanics of the forward stoke. Also look for videos about turning strokes and techniques.
About boats, my best advice is that you will probably need a couple to satisfy the lake paddling and white water. You commented that there probably is no do-it- all boat and maybe you’re right, but there are some that come very close if you’re not talking about the extremes of any type of paddling. Do not make the mistake of thinking that a sea kayak is only for the ocean. I wouldn’t take my CD Sirocco into a true white water situation, but I have used it in some situations where a lot of maneuvering was required in swift water. It gets the job done in a very wide variety of paddling settings and incidentally is a boat that should fit you very well and at the very least serve on lakes and most rivers–not big rapids though.
Your idea of contacting a paddling club is good, but I would also go hang around popular paddling sites and you’ll probably run into someone who would be glad to give you some pointers. I would not discourage you from taking classes, but you just might find someone who is happy to pass on his/her experience for free. I do it all the time and it’s probably well worth what I charge (nothing).
Thanks pblanc I’ve heard of or been by most of the places you mentioned, but that was before I thought about getting into the sport. Running a demo boat down the Nantahala or Ocoee is not an option until I learn to kayak, in general.
I think the general consensus is that something like the older long boats is okay, if not ideal, for someone in my position considering the things I want to do with it as a newbie – learn to kayak, learn to roll, get some flatwater use for fitness and cruising the lakes, learn to paddle straight, eventually get onto some small-time local rapids and have some fun.
Depending on how much seat time I get, I hope to have enough experience to be able to make use of the local demo programs next summer and maybe start to expand my stable.
You’ve all been helpful. I appreciate it and will update this after I (hopefully) pick up a boat this weekend. I’ll probably need some advice on how to patch a 4’ long crack in the hull.
Update Well, I picked up a Pirouette this weekend in very good condition (as far as I can tell). I just need to shave down the hip pads, pick up a paddle and PFD so I can go tool around the lake shore next weekend. If I can find a spray skirt by then I’ll be in good shape.
I’ve been watching a lot of how to videos to try and learn the proper strokes before I hit the water. I also stopped by the Ocoee and Nantahala on Saturday to watch some kayaks in action. Pretty cool.
I’m sure there will probably be a steep learning curve, but I’m excited to get out there and hopefully next summer get on the rivers.
outfitting Does your Pirouette have standard outfitting with adjustable footbraces on tracks bolted to the sides of the hull, or does it have the “Proline” outfitting with an adjustable front bulkhead footbrace?
Some Pirouettes had a large block of minicell foam, concave at the front and notched at the back, that fitted onto the rear vertical foam pillar and functioned as a backrest. This is missing from many Pirouettes. If so, you may want to add an adjustable back band. This is pretty easy to do.
Pirouette series was one of the best of the old school long whitewater designs. I doubt the designers would admit it, but my Stinger (modern, long whitewater design used both for steep creek racing and for things like the Grand Canyon) shares a lot of design features with boats like the Pirouette.
You'll probably have trouble making your Pirouette go straight until you get a good, efficient forward stroke and stern draw. Don't get discouraged, and don't let yourself fall into the trap of throwing a back stroke to stop the boat from spinning out. Eventually you'll learn to sense when it's starting to veer and will be able to keep it on course using small corrections as part of your forward strokes. Work on making it go straight at slow speeds before you try to go fast.
Once you start playing around with catching eddies in fast current, you'll probably flip a lot. Again, don't get discouraged. That's normal for a whitewater beginner in anything other than a ducky. Learn to roll early on. That way, you won't be stressed about swimming every time you try a challenging maneuver.
If you haven't found a copy yet, Kent Ford's "Breakthru" is a great beginner whitewater video that was made when 11' boats were still the norm, so its tips will be more relevant to you than those in newer videos. Whitewater basics will never change, but there are some stroke combinations and techniques that are important in a long boat but aren't really needed in a short boat...
NOC has great instructors. If you decide you do like the boat and want to start doing whitewater, sign up for a lesson or two as soon as you can. It'll be money well spent - you will learn a ton and be much safer as a result.
long boats Old timers like me are somewhat bemused by the “reinvention” of the whitewater kayak long boat.
The Dagger Green Boat and the Liquid Logic Stinger were designed expressly to compete in the Green River Narrows extreme whitewater race. Why? Because the guys who were winning and placing were showing up with old boats like the Dagger Response and the Perception Pirouette.
Jackson Kayak is now playing catch-up in the field with the Karma Unlimited.
Here is an interesting review of the new long boats by NOC instructor and paddler extraordinaire Chris Hipgrave:
My kayak Mine is the ProLine with the adjustable bulkhead brace and it does have the foam backrest. I haven’t had it on the water yet, since I haven’t purchased the rest of my gear, but sitting in it in the garage, seems like the foam will give minimal support.
I was going to ask pblanc if there was an aftermarket back band he could recommend or if you can basically retrofit just about any backband.
It did have some foam hip pads which were sized to make a 10 year old boy fit comfortably. I’ve removed those for now and it fits pretty nicely. I’ll reserve final judgment until I’m out on the lake and get some saddle time and if need be shave down and reshape the hip pads and reinstall them.
Somalley, you nailed my biggest concerns: paddling straight and rolling. I think two things I’ve heard the most (that make sense to a beginner) are to not draw your stroke past your hips and to have the bow of the boat cross the centerline on each stroke, back and forth. Practice, practice, Youtube, practice… Second concern is rolling. I have to figure out this “hip snap” thing. But I do plan on taking at least a couple of lessons next spring at NOC. Everyone, including pblanc says the Pirouette is pretty easy to roll. So, I’ve got that going for me.
Look for winter pool sessions Much nicer to start wet skills in a heated pool than chilly spring water. It does mean that you will more likely want goggles, personally I can’t take a lot of chlotine. Also nose plugs, water finds a way to get awfully high up in your sinuses when you are upside down. And l am not the only one who finds chlorinated water especially nasty.
Backband I used to have an Outburst, which was same era as the Pirouette. The back band I put in it was an Immersion Research Reggie. Easy install, and the width matched up with the narrow hull.
Sorry, I did not see your question earlier as I was out of town.
You might try the foam block "butt support" that you have before deciding to fit a back band. I have actually found it sufficient for my needs.
Part of the function of a back band is to prevent your rear end from sliding off the seat pan when you push on the bulkhead to press your legs up into the knee hooks. The block will probably serve that purpose. But it does concentrate pressure rather low down and does not spread the pressure out as well as a back band. Nor does it provide any real low back support.
I have used IR back bands and I think they are good. The ones I have used were precursors to the Reggie suggested by somalley without the forward adjust ratchets but basically the installation is the same. Here is the IR reggie model:
In the Pirouette installing this back band will require you to drill slots in the front and back of the plastic sidewalls that suspend your seat pan with an electric drill. This is described in the first video and is not hard to do.
Here is a somewhat cheaper option that also has an installation video:
For whitewater use I would recommend a smallish back band. This will provide sufficient back support without limiting torso movement or get in the way of your spray skirt. Either of the bands in the links above would work in this regard. You definitely want to be able to suspend the top of the band as high as possible. You will have a tendency to sit on the band when entering the kayak and the suspension bungees will help limit that, although not prevent it entirely.
I would exercise caution if your method of mounting the back band requires you to undo the machine screws that hold the seat pan side walls in place. In some kayaks the nuts for these screws are captive and secured to the bottom of the seat assembly but in others they are not and if a nut drops free you will have a dickens of a time getting it back on. That is what happened when I re-positioned the seat on my Dagger Crossfire. I have not had occasion to loosen the screws on my Pirouette so I don't know if the nuts are captive or not.
A worthwhile trick shown in the second video on the IR site is the method of securing bungees or other cordage through the vertical minicell foam pillars by pushing a short length of PVC pipe through. This is useful not only for securing the bungees of back bands, but can be used to provide anchors of nylon webbing loops to secure dry bags and throw bags, and cords to secure your flotation bags in the boat. If you use this method to suspend a back band, go as high up on the foam pillar as possible.
As for hip padding, it is fine to start out without any. As you start to use the boat, especially when you try to roll, you will probably find the need to pad out the sidewalls. In general, you want to fit so tight in the boat that you think you will have some difficulty exiting. You will find that as long as it is not too tight to get into, once you are upside down, your body is weightless in the water, and everything is wet after you pop your skirt, you will slide out without even thinking about it.
For your forward stroke to eliminate the yaw affect as much as possible, you will want to keep your blade close to the boat and your paddle shaft relatively vertical, or as much as it can be without crossing your upper hand much past the mid-line of the hull.
Use good torso rotation and a slight forward lean to place the paddle blade in the water at your foot. Take all power off the blade when it reaches your knee. As your boat travels forward, the blade may be close to your hip by the time it fully leaves the water, but the power phase will have ended well before that point.
