When I first read this post, I had much the same reaction that guideboatguy did. And I agree with much of what he said, although I'd probably be less blunt about it.
As I see it, for your target price you have two major limitations: wanting to buy new as opposed to used, and wanting something under 55 lbs. This almost guarantees that you'd be buying a cheaper aluminum canoe that you may not like very much (and that you may make much heavier still with the rhino coating).
As to buying new, I can understand that. I prefer buying new for a lot of items that I could save a lot of money on used (cars, houses, appliances, etc.). I have owned three canoes, two of which I bought used. Those are the only two I still have, and I've gotten far more enjoyment out of them than I ever did in the one I bought new (which was only new until the first scratch I put in it). Unless having a pretty boat, or having the latest and greatest, is a HUGE consideration for you, there is no good reason to buy a new canoe...plenty of used, scratched canoes will not have their performance affected at all, and will not leak.
As for weight, fiberglass would be the best inexpensive option to reduce weight. Avoid the chopper-gun fiberglass canoes. And even if they are heavier (and here I am assuming that your biggest problem is lifting the boat onto your car), get one with aluminum deck plates and gunnels. That way, you can lift one end of the canoe, turn it upside down, and place that end on one of your roof racks. Then, walk to the other end of the canoe, and lift that, pushing it the rest of the way onto the car. That will save some back muscles. On a related point here, the length aluminim canoe you are talking about is probably wider than the same length fiberglass boat you could get, AND probably does not have a carry yoke. I think this would be far more awkward to carry than a good fiberglass canoe with a true carry yoke. You just need to find someone to show you the best way to properly lift it (it is easier than you might think).
I don't know how large your dogs are, but if they aren't too big, consider a dedicated solo design. Even in royaloex, there are plenty of good solo designs under 55 pounds and that can handle you and your dogs. And they may be more seaworthy than that aluminum canoe you are considering. Even brand new there are some under $1000. Check out Mohawk Canoes...they aren't too far from you.
All of this is in the for what it is worth department. The most important factors are those that make you happy.
-Chuck
p.s. you don't need skidplates. Just don't go cruising into every beach at full speed and, when you can, a sideways approach is best.
Yeah, my degree of "bluntness" often varies with the time of day and what kind of day I've had.
Anyway, it sounds like this boat is for solo paddling, and that's another really good reason NOT to get an aluminum tandem canoe. There's a thwart right behind the bow seat, so you won't be able to sit on the bow seat and paddle "backward" for better solo-seating position (using the stern as the bow). Paddling solo from the stern seat creates two problems. First, you need to put plenty of weight up front to keep the boat properly trimmed, otherwise it will be very unstable and also very prone to acting like a weather vane in the wind. That may not be a problem on a long camping trip, but at other times it will be. Second, correcting course, especially counteracting the effect cross-winds have on the bow will be pretty much impossible when you are seated at the extreme back end of the boat. In a 15-foot aluminum boat, seating options in the center are limited due to three rather closely-spaced thwarts. I won't say it can't be done, but it will be harder than it has to be. Also, the boat is likely to be too wide for easy paddling when seated near the middle.
I tend to like new stuff too, partly because finding what I'm lookinf for is much less of a hassle, but if you can locate "the perfect boat" on the used market, I'm sure you won't regret it, and you can save a bundle.
By the way, regarding comments on keels earlier in the thread, very few "good" canoes have keels. Some Canadian "lake boats" have keels, and the Nova Craft company (one example of an outfit that makes "good" canoes) offers a shoe-keel as an option on one or two of their models. Aluminum canoes have keels for no other reason than to securely connect the joint between the two halves and to stiffen what would otherwise be a flexy hull, and "cheap" fiberglass and plastic canoes have keels to make the hull stiffer. Most canoes perform best without a keel, when all things are considered, but it's possible for specific uses to work better with a keel.
When it comes to choosing a task-specific solo canoe, this is the right place to ask questions. In lucky cases, someone even knows of such a model that's for sale.
No offense taken I don’t easily take offense when I perceive that the person giving the advice is knowledgeable. And I know you are.
I wouldn’t have asked my questions if I was 100% sure of my decision. I think my “mistake” was not buying the Bell Rockstar when I had the money, four years ago. Water under that bridge.
I spent four hours today scouring craigslist from Roanoke, VA, SW WVA, to Nashville, TN, down to Mobile, AL, up to Columbus, GA, over to Augusta, GA and up to Columbia, SC, to no avail. NOTHING light enough and long enough that I could afford.
The dogs will add 100 pounds to the canoe. The 40 pounder likes to jump into the water to swim, the 60 pounder will over-react to course corrections.
I have realized that I don’t HAVE to portage the canoe at Voyageur [Gold Portage, Kettle Falls], as I can just park and paddle. That doesn’t mean all that much except that I don’t HAVE to lift the canoe other than to get it on the car and off again.
I don’t have a rack, I use the poor man’s rack, a “noodle” tube with a rope through the hole. I have a 1995 Ford Escort [314,000 miles] and ten pounds of dog-hair and dander between vacuuming.
I do have a wheeled carrier I think will work with a canoe. This expands my options by a little.
BTW, I had planned to use a short stool in front of the thwart in the aluminum canoe as my paddle seat.
Back to the search.
Thanks for all the advice. As long as I perceive you know what you talk about, I won’t get offended.
My 2 cents is 1 cent - instead of rhino-coat, use the 2’ x 2’ foam pads that are made for garage or basement flooring pads. Put 3 or 4 of them together lengthwise for padded insulation.
1 cent - the “short stool” or a milk crate made into a seat will work, although I would put it just behind the center thwart and have the dogs just in front of it.
If you’re going to MN anyhow, perhaps it wouldn’t be unwise to check in with some of the dealers up there about what’s available in glass or Royalex as factory seconds or demos. End of the season (their season) is a good time. Often there are “blems” that go for considerably less than new and one often needs to look pretty closely to even find the blem. You’d be going near the Bell and Wenonah factories on the way up, I believe. The Souris River factory in also fairly near in Ont, and they sell a lot in the area. Perhaps there are Souris blems to be had there as well. No shortage of Nova Crafts and even Swifts, come to that. This is what computer searches were made for.
And if you can get used to the idea of a used canoe, there are liveries galore around Voyageur’s and the BWCA that sell off a portion of their rental fleet each year. Bet there’s something under $1,000 to be had.
Something more suitable to big waters like Kabetogama and Rainy Lakes than a 15’ flat bottom might be worth considering if two weeks supplies and two dogs are part of the picture.
I still have a Grumman aluminum canoe (among others), love it, and will never part with it, though it has its place. Its place is far from rocks, swift current, and long portage trails.
BTW, I’m completely unconvinced that any electrical charge that can jump hundreds or thousands of feet through open air will be greatly affected by the insulating power of even a full 1/4 in of wet plastic. If you’re the local high point in a close lightning storm, I believe you’re at some risk no matter what you’re paddling. Aluminum, carbon fiber (also conductive), kevlar, royalex, whatever… Usually the big waves that accompany such storms on large lakes are more likely to get you though.
Buying a Canoe in BWCA Now you’ve ruined me for sure.
The prices of blems from the manufacturers are still too expensive.
BUT many of the Outfitters sell their older canoes for anywhere from a few hundred dollars off to many hundred dollars off.
I’m “ruint” as we say in the South.
The more I read, the more “ruint” I am.
I’ve learned a LOT from ALL y’alls information. Skid plates aren’t really necessary so that saves money. And if I can purchase a canoe at one of the Outfitters who will hold it until I can pick it up . . . and at a GREAT reduction . . . I just may be able to afford a LIGHTER weight Kevlar canoe.
And here I had my heart set on Aluminum.
In the meantime, I’ll be saving my money and I’ll continue to check craigslist . . . I’d LOVE to be on the water right now . . . .
argumentative "The risk of drowning without a PFD is probably higher than of being struck by lightning. If you can show differently, produce the data."
When did I say anything bordering on that?
I’d love to know why you insist on arguing, I thought the idea here was to help people?
lightning Btw, if you want to paddle when there’s lightning in the area, go right ahead, can’t stop you. Giving that advice though is downright dangerous.
Rent Why not just rent a canoe when you’re up north? You’ll have lots of different boats to pick from at the outfitters and they’ll be able to tell you what would work best in the Boundary Waters for you and your dogs.
Depending on how long you’d be up there you could probably try out a few different boats. Getting some real seat time in will help you figure out what you do and don’t want in a boat. You’ll be a much more educated shopper then and spend money more wisely.
If you’re never on the water when there are sounds of thunder, and flashes of lightning around, then you are a very sheltered paddler. It would be nice if one could be inside in the house whenever lightning is near, but life is not like that.
I’m simply telling people to behave realistically. Incidentally, in my 35+ years of paddling in the thunderstorm-peppered Southeast, I have seen only one (1) report of a kayaker zapped while paddling on a river. But I know of more cases of people zapped after they had gotten out of their boats to squat on rocks away from riverside trees. It makes you think. Or perhaps it should.
What kind of paddling, if any, do you do while you’re home? These would all be well suited to the Boundary waters and larger (slower) rivers, less so to small rocky streams.
Except for the first two I did look at those links, other than the first two, while I was researching Outfitters in Northern Minnesota.
Problem is, I’m in Blairsville, GA, Driving 5 or more hours one way to look at a canoe that I may not purchase [with money I do not currently have] for whatever reason, is not in the budget right now . . . I won’t be able to buy until next Spring . . . and that’s AFTER I find out how much more taxes I’ll owe because my Retirement Health Care will show up as Income on my W-2, and I have no idea how much that will add to my taxable income.
This all may be a pipe dream [and I don’t smoke]. I may end up having to pay Uncle Sam and Georgia all the money I can save up between now and April, with a “light” Christmas for six grandchildren.
So, before I go cry myself to sleep over this . . . thanks for everyone’s input.
Coosa
My sad PS:
“ObamaCare” On page 25 of 29: TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET PROVISIONS-(sec. 9001, as modified by sec. 10901) Sec.9002 “requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage that is excludable from the employees gross income.” If you’re retired, your gross will go up by the amount of insurance you get.
Didn’t realise… you were going to be out that long.
Some things I haven’t seen mentioned/considered yet:
How much of this 3-4 months is going to be spent canoeing? If you plan on doing one week or longer trips you’re going to need a fairly big boat if you plan on carrying your gear and 2 dogs that total 100 pounds. Either way it looks like you’re going to need at least a 16 foot tandem canoe to accommodate the dogs.
Finding a 16 or 17 foot boat that can haul some gear and isn’t going to break your back is going to be a little tough to find for under $1000. Not impossible by any means, but a little tougher.
Also, if you’re only used to flat bottomed aluminum canoes most of the canoes that will best suit your needs might feel a bit tippy, especially if you get two big dogs moving around in them. You’ll get used to it in time though.
I’ve been using this site to search Craigslist by state:
nationwide Do a google search for “craigslist”. The top site will of course be Craigslist and it should have a box right there to search all of Craigslist. Or you can go into advanced search function of Google and specify it to search only Craigslist.
You might want to be more specific than just searching for “Royalex.” I’ve seen very few people selling a royalex boat actually call it royalex in the ad.
aluminum canoe I used to own a 15’ Grumman (aluminum) - I traded it for a 17’ Old Town synthetic. Here are the pluses for each one:
Grumman: indestructible (at least on lakes), better initial stability
Old Town: quieter, warmer (when cold), cooler (when hot), faster (by a lot)
They both weigh about 65 pounds. I have no regrets about making the change. Tip: check out Spring Creek Outfitters in Mountain Iron, MN when you shop for a canoe. They have good prices on all types of canoes and kayaks and they’re fairly close to Voyageur’s Park. I have no connection to Spring Creek other than that I’ve bought a few items from them. Good luck!
Dogs I’ve got two big doggies (malamute and akita) that I love. I would no sooner take them into the BW or Quetico than I would allow them to play in traffic. Wilderness areas are remote. Dogs that see deer or something interesting are apt to get excited and capsize your boat, or otherwise get into mischief that will put you or your trip at risk. I had a dog back in 1974 (border collie) that would sit still in a canoe and wait for my permission to do anything, but she was unique. I could probably train the akita to stay still in a boat because he’s very sedate - except when he sees rabbits or deer. But training him or any big dog would be a bathing suit and beach proposition, not a wilderness tripping exercise.
