From an Explorer LV Owner…
The original poster is very unlikely to have good cockpit fit in the regular Explorer.
As to the Expl LV - this boat takes great care of me and it’ll never leave our fleet. Despite the volume concerns, it is a terribly friendly boat in its handling even if someone is on the small side. Yes it’s more boat to get thru the water than a boat where the hull has been tuned for lower volume as well as the cockpit opening. But if we are going into questionable stuff in Maine this is the boat that goes out that day, because it is just plain less fuss and leaves me feeling much more relaxed. I feel like it gains some advantage over my shorter Vela when the latter hits the speed where I am pushing water, and the longer Explorer is just getting into the nicest part of its forward momentum. But that’s as long as things are flat. Add waves and you may as well start counting the angels dancing on the head of a pin as try to conclusively show whether the longer Explorer is any faster. The paddler becomes a very important part of the equation then.
But, for this poster, I don’t see the need. A 20 mile paddle will be a long one no matter what you are in. In the meantime, the Romany will be easier to carry around, hauls enough gear and is a more responsive learning platform than its more staid big sister.
Romany as the better “all 'rounder"
Having paddled both, I concur with the other posters that the Romany is a better all-rounder. That being said, I love the AA, and in all likelihood will be picking one up in the next year or so as an excellent complement to my Force.
When I read through this thread, though, I found myself wondering whether you have paddled either or both of these boats yet? So much of kayak preference comes down to personal “feel” that in my experience can’t easily be translated logically or reduced to neat two paragraph reviews. Also, you describe yourself as a small female. I’m quite comfortable in both the Romany (the “regular” volume model) and the AA, and I’m a 6’0” 180 lb guy, so I wonder about fit as well.
Romany
For me, the Romany is a better all-arounder than the AA. Although, I don’t own an AA, I do own a semi-replica of the kayak it is based on.
If you already have a Tern 14, why not look into an Explorer LV or something along those lines for your longer trips?
Anas Acuta thoughts
I have a anas acuta. I am 6’ 1" at 175, the boat fits me great, the Romany feels like I am in a deep bath tub when I paddle them. Other boats I own are a Pintail, a Nordkapp LV and a Avocet, also picked up a NDK Greenlander pro. I like that a lot but the workmanship cannot compare to the valley boats, still it is fun to paddle. as an only boat I think you might feel a bit limited in the AA, however as a boat that is a blast on waves and rolling water… it just rocks… I do not find it tippy and I think it tracks better then my pintail. I have the keyhole in the AA and the ocean cockpit in the pintail. All said however the Nordkapp LV is the best boat I own.
Orginal post: “I am not looking for…”
"I am not looking for different boat suggestions; I have the gimmes for either these 2, or possibly the Chatham 17."
I know we all like to talk about more boats (I even managed a mention of my Nordkapp LV in this thread), however, she has the choice among two or three boats, each of which is a good boat.
BTW, this is a paddler who counts among her boats: "my awesome, custom made Infinity waveski for when the surf's up."
Consider the Aquanat LV or Avocet LV
It’s good to come back on topic …
... one of the reasons I didn't bother to chime in before. But since Wilsoj brought us back on topic I'll see if I can shift us off again.
My first thought was: Why are you (tabeloe) trying to compare the AA with the Romany? I guessed that maybe you had an opportunity to pick up one or the other that had 'previously been enjoyed' by someone. But now I'm thinking maybe you are looking at new boats, so I'm confused.
I think a better comparison is between the Romany and the Avocet. The Avocet was designed as the replacement for the Pintail, although both are still offered. The Avocet is a very reassuring boat, and may even have a bit more speed than a Romany. They are both excellent boats and are rather large volume for someone your size. But what about the newly introduced (2008) Avocet LV? Have you considered it? I test paddled one in February and really liked the lower overall volume and fit, but the thigh braces were in the wrong location for me.
I currently own an Avocet RM which has been my main ride since Fall 2005. I also own an AA with ocean cockpit and no skeg. I love this boat and am having a blast paddling it, but have only had it since August.
The 22" wide Avocet or 21.5" wide Romany are probably more versatile, but the 20.5" wide Anas is a blast to paddle - and it just looks sweet. More challenging? Maybe. Possibly a tiny bit harder to roll - it semed like it at first, but I can't tell anymore.
Anyway, if you're learning toward the Romany over the Anas you should also try an Avocet LV.
~wetzool
Kayak choices
I thank all of you again for your considered advice. I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed, but the more info the better.
I am looking to buy new and a friend of mine suggested the Romany and after some on-line searching I liked what I saw about the AA so that’s how I arrived at these two.
At this point it’s going to come down to the demo, I’m sure. There is no nearby dealer to me so it will involve a trip which is why I haven’t been able to do so yet. I’m trying to get as much research done before this as I can. And I thank everyone here for your help in that!
In that case
If you are looking for a new boat and have not paddled them, I suggest looking at the Force3 which fits small paddlers very well and is a nice boat for multi-day touring and fast day trips. Might complement the AT 14 well. If you are only doing overnights or weekends, then definitely demo the Avocet LV. If you are under 5’ 4" and 120#, the Romany and AA might well be a little big or really big depending on your preferences.
Size does concern me
Yes, I am under the height and weight you mentioned and this worries me in regards to my choices. I do not like the feel of swimming in the cockpit and being short-legged, it’s difficult sometimes to get thigh braces in the right position.
I quaruple the Avocet LV idea.
“I am looking to buy new”
In that case, given your size, try an Avocet LV and Vela - if you have access to P&H boats. The Romany LV is also an option. Then there is the Island Qaarsut, which is lower volume than an Anas and fairly similar. Island stopped shipping to this country, but there are a few of them around. http://www.seakayakingusa.com/qaarsut.htm & http://www.canoesandkayaks.co.uk/product/1446/Qaarsut_505_Sea_Kayak_Island_Kayaks & http://www.sea-kayak.org.uk/new_page_1.htm
Beyond Romany and AA
I’ve paddled the Romany many times (even though I don’t own one). I don’t know how small you are. But at 110lb, I found the Romany still a bit on the big side. Despite its “relatively” low deck, I still bob around like a cork and got blown around a fair bit when paddle it un-loaded.
I suspect that’s why you find the Ana Acuta so appealing? “smaller the better”? If so, you’d do better by expanding your search by looking at the Avocet LV and the Rumare (?). There may be one or two other boats that are lower volume and narrower still than the Romany, without having to deal with the “personality” of the AA.
That said, if you’re planning to camp out of it, plus you still have the Tern for un-loaded day paddling, probably the Romany will be just right volume-wise once loaded down.
OK - suggestions now
First, yes the Anas as well as the Romany are too big in volume for you if you are shorter and less weight than me, since they are both officially over-volume for me as well. I thought that you had to choose between those two boats.
It's not just the cockpit fit - you also have to consider how well the volume of the boat is tuned to the motor pushing it (the paddler). It doesn't sound like you have considered that.
First, re the Romany. You would likely love the Xsmall cockpit and lowered deck of the Romany LV. The problem is that like the Explorer it is still the same volume hull as the regular sized Romany. So you are getting a better cockpit fit but no improvement in the match of the volume to your size. And, gotta say, getting camping gear thru those 8 inch hatches with a lower deck than usual could require purchasing new stuff.
For a long time a smaller person had to take a bigger person's boat and fit it out, but there are boats tuned for small paddlers now. You should start there. Ones I know:
Valley Avocet LV - Spent a day in this and it's a great all around boat. If you are an inch or so shorter and 5-10 pounds lighter than me it is absolutely your boat. They got it right on the thigh braces, tracks ok, medium fast hull, and oval hatches that are dry and will admit gear easily.
P&H Vela - More of a personality and that huge rear oval hatch tends to let in a smidge of water, but very solid in conditions and accelerates wonderfully. Sets up a bow wake somewhere above 4 knots, is fairly skeg-dependent in wind, but the spritely quality of this boat is the only reason I am not trying to find the money to order an Avocet LV right now. Other downside is it's not much of a rescue platform for a 6' tall guy.
Impex Force 3 - The thigh braces should be far enough back for you, I am less sure about its volume but I believe that eel's wife is an inch shorter than me, so they should have good advice on volume. Likely a better boat for gear hauling than the above two.
Impex Mystic - Probably a great fit for you, likely no day hatch though since it's an older boat. Other than that, and questions about gear hauling capacity, is a fantastic boat for getting small people going into bigger stuff.
P&H Capella 161 - You'd have to sit in it. Great all around boat with again decent gear carrying capacity. But while I spent a couple of days in it my recall isn't good enough to gauge how well the contact would work out for someone shorter than me.
CD Rumour - You'd have to try this boat, it's a little nichy but some really love it. It sure is responsive and fast. One problem though is that you'd have to build in thigh braces back from the edge of the coaming. There are none in this boat, it relies on a shortened cockpit, and taller than you I found that my contact with the underside of the coaming was more knee than thigh.
There is a newer WS boat that I haven't been in, may be worth a look for you, called the Eliza. Current Designs has a couple of newer boats out for smaller paddlers, from what I've seen of them and your background I think your best shot would be the one that is the smaller person's Caribou. I think it's called the Suka. Can't comment on the cockpit fit though, haven't sat in one.
The CD Slipstream maybe, but my memory is that the cockpit was more narrowed than the thigh brace shortened. Similarly, you may like the Nigel Foster Silhouette made by Seaward or still find contact on the long side. The Silhouette (as well as the Rumour) is also for most people a boat that requires a lot of the paddler's attention in conditions, something that you may want to consider in finding a boat for longer tripping.
Mrs EEL’s .2 worth
The smaller you are, the more important good fit is. Find a few that fit, then preferences come unto play. Buying a boat that is too big and padding it out to fit will always be a boat that is too big. No one on the planet wanted my Rumour to fit me just right and work well than me, and yet it finally scared me to the point that I didn’t want to paddle anymore. Not the boat’s fault–only mine. I’m 114, 5’1". My personal do-everything boat is the Impex Force 3. It fits me with no padding. I use it for multiday camping trips or afternoon paddles playing in rocks and swells along the coast. It is a worthy friend. I’ve either owned/sold or paddled most of the boats listed in this thread. In fact Ed’s Anas Acuta was one of a long string of boats that came to our basement. I loved it but could not make it fit. The Romany LV is huge and I would have to add ballast to make it sit down in the water. Boats are designed for optimal performance within a specific weight range–and if you and your gear don’t weigh enough you have to add more weight for good performance (the Rumour is a case in point). I would suggest you demo on the water a Force 3, Avocet LV, Vela and Capella, the Suka, and Eliza. You will discover differences but they all should give you a sense of fitting. Decide what will work for you from those that fit you. That’s my .2!
Used
Buy your first boat used if you can. Less/no/negative penalty to resell if it doesn’t work out. But, if you can only find what you love new, go for it.
Unless you have rather odd dimensions
…it is very unlikely that as a small female you are going to get a good fit in a Romany or AA. As I said, both of these boats fit me well (albiet snugly) and I’m a 6’ 180 lb guy.
No offense, but I think your search technique is somewhat off. I agree with identifying some likely targets up front based on purpose/size/etc, but I’d avoid narrowing your choice down to two boats before you’ve paddled either. Just because someone else likes it doesn’t mean you will. On the other hand, you could spend the next several years of your life demoing boats, so find something that feels good to you and go for it!
If you don’t have a kayak dealer near you, I’d suggest targeting one that’s within reasonable travelling distance and carries a couple of the major brands that make boats that you might be interested in. Do a day trip and try as many as you can.
Finally, I’ll jump on the Force 3 bandwagon. I paddle a Force 4 and love it. The Force boats are well designed for the sort of trips that you’re looking to do.
None taken
I agree that my search technique was not the best so I’ve been reevaluating my approach the last couple days using the advice and recommendations here and finding dealers within a reasonable distance. I am not the most patient of persons so this will be good practice for me.
Your advice is well-taken.
But, dang, I still think that Anas is a sexy boat and I wanted it! Oh well, back to more real, reasonable, and rational choices.
Thanks to everyone again.
No to the Slipstream
My first serious kayak was a Slipstream. I'm a bit taller and heavier than you, and that kayak didn't fit me then -- and I was about 10 lbs lighter than I am now -- and it still doesn't fit right. My husband, who paddles an Avocet and a Pintail, has a TempestPro165 up for sale, and who fits nicely in both my RomanyLV and my ExplorerLV, had a Slipstream also and it never quite fit him right, either. He's 5'9" and 150.
Go with what people have recommended here and definitely demo everything you can. When you demo, do it in as close to the conditions you paddle in and also make sure you're buying the boat from a dealer who knows his/her stuff, which, given the boats you're looking at should be the case. Between how the boat feels to you and the dealer offering help and expertise, you should do okay.
As for the RomanyLV being huge: I never found the boat to be that big on me, although it is minimally padded out to accommodate my hips and my right leg, which is slightly askew. The Vela is a nice little boat but no longer in production at P&H. It replaced my Slipstream. While I don't think I'm Mrs. Ace Paddler, I never had trouble doing a large person rescue in it, although perhaps the big guys I was pulling out of the water lied about their height and weight:).
Remember, one person's dream boat is another person's nightmare. Try 'em all and decide which one makes you smile and keeps you growing.
And the AA is, indeed, one sexy boat but even those I know who own them -- and I'd love one myself -- also have either Explorers, Romanys, or Avocets in their fleet.
Hope this helps.
Vela Rescue Question
Serious question - did you end up paddling any distance with the taller guys fully up on either your front or back deck? That’s where I felt it was a risk too far when a simple paddle in a northeastern bay got way more interesting than planned. The rescuee was a bit over 6 ft, and at that point in my paddling anyway it didn’t seem to work to try getting him up on top in the conditions we were experiencing. (short period wind driven stuff, not high but present) I’ve never had any trouble with the Vela for the more garden variety assisted rescues etc.
I have paddled people around on my Explorer LV with significantly more assured results, albeit funny looking ones.