I worked at the starting line
of a USACK kayak race. There were spotter boats at different locations for the safety of the racers, an ambulance on site with EMTs, and a sheriff's deputy on a jet ski at the ready.
When a couple of racers capsized, within minutes there was a boat nearby if help was needed.
the grammatical structure
of the sentence "could" imply that "common sense" did not apply, which it in fact did not because the deceased did not use any
Yes and others have no safety boats
and the race director leaves it up to each individual to decide if they need to wear a PFD or not, unless the weather report is calling for bad weather in which case he would probably make it mandatory which naturally we would all want any way.
There are many races that are not insured by either the ACA or the USCA and many of those directors leave it up to each person to decide for themselves
Jack L
Another example proving your point
You said that being without it (PFD or seatbelt) when you need it is what it takes for most people to figure this stuff out. In another post I mentioned the strict use of seatbelts that I grew up knowing, and how my dad actually installed seatbelts in cars long before the days when cars even had them. Why? Back in the 1940s he was riding in a car with his brother and on an icy road they had a collision with another car. Their speed was very slow and damage to the car was minimal, but my dad slid off the seat so that his knee hit the dashboard (in those days, the dashboard was just as solid as any other part of the car) and his knee gave him trouble ever since. It was a no-brainer on his part to realize how much worse it could have been had they not been going so slowly, and that the use of seatbelts simply made sense. So if cars didn't have seatbelts back then, there was only one logical thing to do. Install them yourself! And wear them every time.
I had my own personal experience
when younger. It only took that one accident, I was lucky and it could have been much worse. Sure convinced me!
my mistake
I thought because you posted your comment to mine, that you were responding to it and not another post.
that’s silly of HCPS
They have no authority over who uses what watercraft in the Great Lakes. And a tandem paddled by a pair of skilled kayakers is always going to be safer than a single paddled by one skilled kayaker.
I know you didn’t opine on it one way or the other, but it’s a silly “rule”.
who is a "PFD purist?
First off, this wasn’t a race. Secondly, it’s not apples to apples with a race condition - you just said so, unless you changed your mind AGAIN.
It’s unfortunate that you feel so damn persecuted when someone else here repeats the factual analysis of a tragedy that could have been avoided if the paddler had been wearing a PFD, but that’s your problem, not everyone else’s. Grow up.
not an "isolated incident"
Just one of many such. There are more than a few PA fish and game rangers who take a rather jackboot attitude towards enforcement, sometimes on very petty and arbitrary grounds. I would not be so annoyed by it if they were actually enforcing regulations that had more real relevance to safety. The example I chose was meant to illustrate the time wasted on “enforcing” a pointless mandate, that of carrying PFD’s uselessly stashed unworn. If they were citing paddlers or collecting fines that would reinforce people’s tendency to properly use safety equipment in the futiure (for fear of a citation or simply because they were being made aware of how important that usage was) then they would be accomplishing something.
By your rationale, we should not bother with seat belt laws because people who drive on remote or very crowded highways could mostly get away with not wearing them due to the low likelihood of being ticketed. And why have the Geneva Convention since every battleground can’t have inspectors? Your “logic” remains flawed.
foop
when my boyfriend's son and 29 of his friends and old college buddies
no, eyeyeyyahhahhah….29 !
When I was in high school
The state of PA thinks ….this is big news.
In SC the game wardens enforce boating laws. They are much more active on the water than in the woods. It is much easier to see a violation, and write a money making citation on the water than in the woods.
More hypocrisy, this time in Texas.
next Utah....
Location, demography, economics, ah everything....form different paddling problems with access to 'affordable' equipment.
Texas, eg has farm and oil rig workers kayaking on lakes. The sea people have salt.
The great lakes have farmers and ? kayaking on immediately rough water. Cold water.
SC has various backwoods types ...but the water is the Atl and the barrier Islands are feudal.
vastly different situations. Obviously the GL have a rescue problem.
The mere fact that game wardens would have something they could easily write tickets for would never even come close to paying for a greater enforcement presence on the water….
That is prob true. Rescue is at this time cheaper than more law. A street example is bicycle visibility. Major reason cyclists are killed is no visibility. How is visibility enforced ? Squad cars chasing children while muggers kill your grandma down the street ?
Lets keep the apples and the oranges apart. ….
MAJOR PROBLEM ! we and our more skilled and brave paddlers projection an image to the public.
The public buys the image ( but not the skills ) and buys $250 yaks no pfd n out they go into water that’s chaleneging for an intermediate.
And, you know what, the fish and game officers are ALREADY OUT THERE …..
29 ? eyeyehahahhaha over 4 hours ? n the farmer up the hill called the cops ?
What were the 29 doing ? eyeheahahhha……
here goes….more paranoia…Florida, the four square state, routes calls thru the State. FYI. This like calling Myer Lansky.
Virtually all the people who drown in boating related accidents are not wearing PFD's
Yes but not me nor am I considering drowning…..not a whisper of this….nada…zero…
But an unsafe boat design…this is fruad. An socially immoral position for turning a profit. Like melanin in your cereal.
Eyeja here come the cops ditch the weed n stash Dude……..
In a Socialist State, cars are inspected for stopping ability.
Kayaks must float
ALL KAYAKS WILL BE SOLD WITH A Pfd.
Not having a pfd is a $250 fine.
BTW FYI the cops came to limit the on water activity before THE 29 went out on the highway to kill us.
slushpaddler
Quote “And a tandem paddled by a pair of skilled kayakers is always going to be safer than a single paddled by one skilled kayaker.” end quote
Really? Not being a tandem paddler not really sure about that. Can skilled tandem paddlers roll back up in 5 foot breaking waves? I was doing that this past Saturday.
Just curious why you think this? Every time I hear about tandem paddlers that cam into trouble I think there not as safe as a single assuming high skill level with both kayak types.
yah skilled tandem team can
Im not a skilled kayaker solo or tandem and my roll is lacking but I have seen tandems being rolled in seas Id not go out in.
I think generalizations are rife in this thread and its way too early for winter name calling.
There must be something about tandems and stability cause the outfitters I have seen all use them. Probably a roll is not expected… and there are other methods of rescue.
sure
Two sets of paddles = a greater ability to brace. So maybe there is no need to roll. Jon Bowermaster took a pair of tandems to the Aleutian Islands. Did you do that last weekend?
I think you can probably grasp my point, which is that it's a bit ignorant for a parks service to try to disallow a boat based on the number of seats, rather than how seaworthy it is and how prepared and experienced the paddlers in it happen to be. Do you disagree?
if you paddle in water
…yet you can’t find a way to not overheat, Darwin just hasn’t caught up with you yet.
PFD Check
A RI DEM (Department of Environmental Management) Officer stopped for a PFD check at one of our club trips two years ago.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eckilson/15396367914/in/album-72157648127073722/
In our area it is either duck hunters or drunk college students that die in boating accidents, and this isn’t going to solve that problem.
I understand
how things are different state to state.
I see wardens here on a yearly basis. I have yet to be checked in my kayak or canoe as I am wearing a PFD which I think suggests to them I am fully compliant with the law. I have seen motor boats checked, and know of one young women who was fined a $100+ for no whistle while kayaking. She was not wearing her PFD and was in a bathing suit. A more likely target than a whiskered old guy wearing a PFD. A different sort of profiling I suspect.
Chris Peterson’s Obituary
http://obits.mlive.com/obituaries/annarbor/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=180580678
I never met him but had heard his broadcasts on WCBN.
I agree
I agree with you on the rule being stupid not allowing tandems. I wasn’t really commenting on that. I was just curious why you thought tandems are safer with “skilled paddlers”.
Sure beginners are better off as tandems tend to be wider more stable craft for beginners. As far as going off some way out journeys sure tandems can hold a lot of gear plus two paddlers in a tandem can be faster for longer distance covered on the adventure.
BUT I still don’t see them as safer for skilled paddler. I would never want to be out in big waves in a tandem. I want to count on me. Oh if your playing in 5 foot breaking waves you will eventually go over. Just 3 times for me last Saturday. But rolled up without a thought and kept surfing along. Coming out of the boat was not really an option were I was, well not a good option.
irbc : I am with you 100 percent, but
unfortunately you are preaching to the wrong choir here!
They are either all members of the ACA, or don't realize that there are other conditions where there is no need to wear a PFD.
If you were paddling in a kiddie pool with out one, they would jump all over you.
The post above is a good example
Jack L
you still haven’t learned about b&b?
You don't want to have to delete another thread string to feel better about yourself. Yesterday was a doozy for you.
People paddle in hot climes all the time with PFDs - there are a few commenting above. We cool off using the water. Also, I'm not one calling for mandatory PFD rules.
You have a hard enough time NOT explaining your own posts to be explaining anyone else's post. Give it a rest or go to the appropriate forum.