Another thing
The real complication is when the more-experienced person is in a leadership role (leading newbies).
Note that newbies often think that what the leader does is also appropriate for them (when they don’t have sufficient knowlege/experience to make an informed decision).
don’t push your luck
you only get one “njkayaker got it right” per day
Rental situations
– Last Updated: Feb-21-08 1:08 PM EST –
This seems to vary a lot. And actually there has been discussion on this board about how to tell if a kayak rental outfit has taken measures to secure a margin of safety.
My comment was, as said, my own reaction. I'm not sure it needed to be evaluated for merit. But there are places that do rentals where there is more oversight, call it guided if you want but it's still newbies in a boat, which may have been a useful alternative to the situation reported in Texas. What has been reported - darkness, boat wakes and new paddlers doesn't sound like a lowest risk situation no matter how you cut it.
And let's assume that the rental folks issued all the cautions in the world including advice that would have kept them out of that area. How many guys on this board listened to that stuff when they were 20 years old? The only people I know who would expect these guys to take those cautions seriously are other 16-20 old young men, or their kid sisters.
Delirious
I was so delirious I couldn’t help myself!
Presentation
– Last Updated: Feb-21-08 3:39 PM EST –
"My comment was, as said, my own reaction. I'm not sure it needed to be evaluated for merit."
No, it was presented as fact:
"The reason that any rental outfit would send two paddlers out without making sure that they are both wearing their PFD's and are dressed properly, even if it means keeping some shorties around that rent out with the boats, escapes me."
There is NOTHING that indicates that the outfit "send two paddlers out without making sure that they are both wearing their PFD's".
We have -no- idea what the arrangements were. There certainly are not sufficient details to start blaming the outfitter.
It's possible that the renters took the kayaks to some other site. It's possible that the kayaks were being rented for multiple days. It's possible that they took off the PFDs after they left the outfit. We have no idea.
"What has been reported - darkness, boat wakes and new paddlers doesn't sound like a lowest risk situation no matter how you cut it."
Yes, there are a lot of things that are a little off in this story. It would be nice to have more facts about the situation.
"But there are places that do rentals where there is more oversight, call it guided if you want but it's still newbies in a boat, which may have been a useful alternative to the situation reported in Texas. What has been reported - darkness, boat wakes and new paddlers doesn't sound like a lowest risk situation no matter how you cut it."
There is a lot of variation in what outfits do. I suspect, though, that all of them supply PFDs (they have to legally) and many probably tell people to wear them.
What I mean by "guided" (the typical meaning) is having a leader/guide paddle with you. If there is no guide, there's no way that the outfitter could have any assurance the renters worn the PFDs they were provided.
"And let's assume that the rental folks issued all the cautions in the world including advice that would have kept them out of that area. How many guys on this board listened to that stuff when they were 20 years old?"
Yes, this is a possible explanation of what happened.
exactly
You’ve got it right
– Last Updated: Feb-24-08 1:21 PM EST –
If you risk your life and depend on your safety equipment and it fails then you lose.
I thought about bringing this up with the use of inflatable PFDs but decided not to. What happens if the PFD fails to inflate. The argument of having manual inflaters only works for a good swimmmer who can maintain control during the time required to inflate them. I have seen many people choke and have to be pulled from a swimming pool because they got a mouth full of water while trying to take a deep breath before blowing in the manual tube.
Trying to analyze every paddling death is a total waste of time. How do they think this could have been prevented? Only by some forceful regulation by laws could have helped and will still continue as the BUI and DUI fines indicate.
Regretfully these thing happen and will continue to happen and that's life.
PFD in compartment. Dead. Can’t swim!
AUBURN, N.H. –
Crews have found the body of a 52-year-old man who went missing after his kayak overturned near Battery Point on Lake Massabesic.
Officials said Kenneth Fudge, of Derry, N.H., was kayaking with his fiancee when he reached for a hat floating in the water. Fudge’s kayak overturned, and he went underwater. His fiancee attempted to save him, but he slipped from her arms when she could no longer hold him up.
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“His fiancee, knowing he couldn’t swim, got in the water with him, trying to hold him up, and was unable to do that,” said Sgt. Dave Eskeland of the Fish and Game Department.
Marine Patrol personnel helped pinpoint the location of Fudge’s body using a sonar unit and laid out a grid for Fish and Game Department divers to use in their search. The water is about 20 feet deep in the area where Fudge drowned.
The Nashua Dive Team worked Wednesday night, and Fish and Game divers found Fudge’s body at about 10 a.m. Thursday.
Fudge’s death is weighing heavy on the hearts of the St. Thomas Aquinas Church community. Fudge attended church there for more than 15 years.
“I was devastated,” said parishioner Sandy Sherman. “It’s very hard for all the parishioners.”
Although Fudge couldn’t swim, he and his fiancee were experienced kayakers, friends said. Fish and Game officials said life jackets were in storage compartments in the kayaks, but they weren’t wearing them.