Old is…
…when you have to get up more than 2 times at night to go to the bathroom.
Not old, just experienced
Well, I’m 61 now and just looking to start kayaking. I expect to have my first kayak by next summer, I’m doing some research first. I’ll grant that I’m not even close to the shape I was in at 20 but I’m not dead yet and I want to do something more physically active. Since I live close to 2 decent lakes this appeals to me. Unfortunately my wife said the largest body of water she wants to deal with is the bathtub but I’m undeterred.
there’s a middle ground (water) here
I, too, am a very cautious paddler. But I paddle in winter, alone, as a monitor for local eagle nests. (Nesting starts in Jan.) Rolling is very important to me as one possible self-rescue technique. It is definitely not a way of life or a fitness routine. It is a tool I keep in reserve, like my paddle float.
In winter I always wait for favorable weather before I go. I dress for immersion (often a drysuit). And I always go out with up to 3 ways in mind to save myself in event of a capsize: paddling as close to shore as I can, carrying a paddle float and a spare paddle, and knowing how to roll. No, I don’t have a competent paddling partner available to go at the spur of the moment on a weekday – it’s just me and whatever experience, skill and judgment I can muster. So rolling is very important – to me. But we’re all different.
G in NC
what do you think happens?
People find a way to keep doing the things they love, even if it means compromise. And IMO people in these straits generally don’t sweat the details and just grab for what they can get out of life and activities. Some of these folks may not even consider their condition and more limited ability a problem because they’ve learned to cope. Certainly not only loss of flexibility but also strength can play factors.
One can learn a lot about this topic by watching and listening to paddlers with restricted mobility.
Replies culled so far
Here are the replies so far that address the question, “What changes have you made to adapt to losing safety skills?” Assuming significant loss of physical function beyond what could be remedied by modifiying technique, here are some adaptations that older people use:
- Avoid cold-weather/cold-water paddling
- Paddle close to shore, withing swimming distance.
- Exchange kayak for more stable type of boat.
- Choose easier conditions.
- Be aware of your abilities and limitations and don’t allow others to push you into situations you’re not comfortable with.
- Paddle with others who can rescue you. (Note that assisted rescue also requires certain physical abilities, which may be similar to self-rescue.)
- Always wear your pfd.
- Paddle an SOT instead of a SINK.
- Carry a radio.
- Get a larger cockpit.
- Carry sponsons.
- Watch the weather and surface conditions carefully.
- Paddle “for peace of mind, not thrills.”
I offer these additional ideas for discussion:
- Weigh risks and benefits and make a decision. After a certain age, having lived out 95% of my expectable life, I would rather kayak with risk than not kayak at all. Drowning probably isn’t pleasant, but it beats certain gruesome illnesses of old age.
- Carry an additional flotation device that will keep at least part of you out of the water (assuming the water is colder than the air) and possibly facilitate mobility.
- Carry flippers to enhance your swimming.
- Check your swimming ability. Whatever prevents you from reentering your kayak may also impact your swimming.
- Graduate from ocean to lake to pond as necessary. There is some beautiful pond paddling to be had.
- Always carry an emergency kit with food, clothing, and shelter in case you wash up somwhere after capsizing and night falls. Include flares and a horn.
- When you truly can’t paddle safely anymore, transition to another interest and keep your good memories of kayaking and canoeing.
Have you tried it?
"17. Carry flippers to enhance your swimming. "
You’ve tried successfully putting the flipper on while treading water?
Re: older paddlers
You said “older kayakers” but I noticed some canoers replied so I will too. I am a 72 year old female, paddling mostly solo canoe for over 50 years. My reflexes are not as fast and I am not as strong, especially in my right wrist. I no longer paddle Class III white water by myself. I have an inflatable canoe (a Grabner) that will go anywhere and I paddle it tandem with anybody who will go with me. I wear a wrist support on my right wrist. I carry the inflatable in the back of truck and I have a trailer for the canoes if I am by myself.I mostly paddle with younger people who help me but I try to be as independent as possible. Those are the accomodations I have made and so far they work.
Some of the above…
to me are always prudent no matter who you are, like carry a radio or similar device to call for help, bring change of clothing, spare food and something like a tarp or bivy for if caught out in bad weather.
I appreciate that these things were added by folks to handle stuff as they grow older, but hope that newer paddlers don’t think this stuff is only for those of creaking joints.
Re the SOT - easier to manage in/out of on the water, but are they heavier to get there?
Definitely . . .
heavier to get there. We use kayak carts when it’s any distance . . . or take turns carrying one SOT at a time (one in front, one in back); carrying each kayak 50 - 100 feet before going back the carry the other one for awhile. That way, we keep both boats in sight until we get them to the put-in.
On the roof of the wagon, we have the Thule glider model roof rack for the heavier boat, then secure the second lighter boat vertically using the horizontal boat as a vertical “stacker.” Use a third strap on the vertical boat for redundancy, plus bow tie-down ropes. Went to Florida and back twice with no problems, other than checking/retightening straps.
It takes a little more time, but at least we do not overstrain ourselves.
NO SMILES HERE, FE!
I started out in a canoe -it was something like my 3rd or 4th merit badge -spent my early teens in a tin tank running all over the non-Park Everglades and upstate on the moss-draped oak-shadowed rivers & streams…
…Years later, we found out about kayaks in the Keys -those sawed-off skinnier-than-thou topless but decked canoes were a LOT of fun! They were a LOT faster for the same amount of input effort. And they didn’t get blown about in the wind like regular canoes. We stull have 6 of them…
And somewhere along the way, I found, and then took up, and… ENJOY! -golf. 'Cept in my case ya gotta spell it backwards to appropriately describe my game. And fun? Well, for me, it’s just like Roy’s quote in Tin Cup, know what I mean…?
So I seem to have more or less followed that progression of yours, FE, and I could NOT disagree more, as I always ask a canoor ta come along 'n bring the cooler with the beer, I’m still a swinger -but only on the course, of course! -and I still enjoy it when I
PADDLE ON!
-Frank in Miami
How about elderly drivers ??
I have reached the age, while driving where I can no longer take a peek at some hot looking chick strolling along the sidewalk or I’ll end up hitting her !!!
Jack L
Get a canoe
has not been mentioned. Pack canoe in particular.
Those sub 30 lb boats are fast, are paddled with a double blade, allow more movement of the body so you don’t get stiff and are easier to enter/exit than an SINK.
Some designs are good on big lakes. Probably most kayakers are not on oceans. But I just took RapidFire on Lake Superior and Muscongus Bay is on its trip list for next week.
Pack canoes are a far cry from your stereotypical clunker canoe.
Suggestion?
Got a link to a pack canoe that you recommend?
Here are a few
I keep forgetting a couple
http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/
Nessmuk and Nessmuk XL
http://swiftcanoe.com/packcanoe/
http://placidboatworks.com/
http://www.hornbeckboats.com/
Canoe and Kayak Magazine
Check current issue for pack canoe reviews.
Lovely - where in Muscongous?
With a pack canoe you might even have an easy time getting up the side of Little Marsh to that 20 sq ft campsite at the top… but the lilac bush site on Black is cushy.
I forgot to say, my memory is shot.
70 + brigade
Hi all, my English needs some improvements but I hope it is readable. I would be happy if someone could ameliorate (and comment of course)the text.
KAYAK for seniors (70 + Brigade)
v20140618
When I my renewed my acquaintance with kayaking,after more than 50 years of absence caused by excessive pollution of the river Schelde (I am living in Antwerp, near that river), I found myself in a whole new world.
I always liked to bike and swim and I enjoyed recreational badminton for many years but a knee injury, and some surgery, made an end to the badminton activity. This, and an advertisement of a local kayak club, brought kayaking back in sight.
But not only the boats and the technical side of the kayaking had evolved, and fortunately also the water quality, I also wasn’t young anymore (born in 1943), with all the physical consequences.
- A first problem that did occur was change clothes at departure and arrival of a kayak trip. Everybody solved that problem according to their own discretion but, although I was accustomed to showering and to (un)dress in group with the badminton activity, there was something wrong for me.
Not only it was sometimes (too) cold or (too) much wind, but there was also a lack of privacy eg to outsiders or the other gender.
The solution was, after some searching on the Internet, the kayak fleece poncho . Two fleece blankets sewn to each other, with openings for arms and head, quickly brought a solution.
It is without any doubt important to get dry and warm after a kayak trip. Leaving wet underwear on for whatever reason is a bad idea in our climate conditions, except maybe high summer.
- The transport of the kayak by car introduced me to another problem. Most kayak carriers asked too much effort (and back strain) to put the kayak on the holders, especially when sailing solo .
A solution sometimes used is to purchase a very light kayak but for starting back with the kayak activity I had chosen an “all round” PE kayak of 23 kg ( Dagger Charleston )
a search on the internet presented several solutions:
a very simple backward or lateral support.
I choose to mount a ladder support and a ladder on the rack of my car and it is no problem to load and unload the kayak on my own.
Because it is a “long load” I have to use a front and tail rope to the car in order to stabilize the kayak as recommended by the car manufacturer.
- Training to reenter the kayak was done with (cleaned) club boats in the local swimming pool with a water temperature around 28 degrees. We trained mostly the “cowboy reenter”.
However, a live test in the fall with my own kayak, a Dagger Charleston, gave unexpected problems. The water was a lot colder (15 ° C) than in the pool and cold shock gave rise to hyperventilation. It proved to be totally impossible to climb on to the kayak and swimming to the shore, with support on the kayak, was the only remaining option.
After some research, I decided to repeat the experiment, but now with a neoprene 3mm Long John with additional 3mm neoprene vest. The theory is that, once wet, the water between the neoprene suit and the body is not refreshed with cold water and thus the heat loss is restricted.
Although I had no problem while training to repeatedly climb on to the kayak, in cold water it is quite different. After two failed attempts, I was exhausted and I had to swim to the shore.
The causes are: rapid exhaustion by cold water, unstable kayak through water in the kayak.
For those who can’t train in a swimming pool with the kayak a good indication of your possibility to use a “cowboy reenter” is that you can get out of the swimming pool without using the steps or ladder, just by pulling you up on the side. In swimming pool conditions (water around 28°C) you must be able to do this several times in a row. In colder water it will be (a lot) less, even with a dry or wet suit.
While I like kayaking solo, also on some bigger water, I can’t always rely on help from other kayakers.
To solve this problem I found a solution developed by solo kayakers , on expeditions and so on, and that was the use of floats or kayak outriggers (sponsons). I opted for retractable fixed floats.
Normally folded at the stern, they are easy to unfold and they lock automatically
After my experiences in cold water (
continuing story
– Last Updated: Jun-21-14 6:25 AM EST –
After my experiences in cold water (below 21°C) I no longer believe in manual inflatable equipment .
Also my paddle float is a fixed model
http://www.slideshare.net/paulnollen/kayak-sponsons
With the sponsons deployed I found it very easy to get back on the kayak and I even can use the kayak
as a sit on top.
It is recommended to try the rescue techniques with your own boat loaded for a trip and in
similar circumstances.
The next step was the purchase of a drysuit. Decisive here was going through reading about
"hypothermia", and even more important, "cold shock" (Cold shock can occur from 21°C when not
trained)
The main rule is: use the clothes recommended for the water temperature and, if older or not
trained, don't make concessions on this.
This means for me that I nearly always have to wear a dry suit when kayaking. I have to look for
cloudy weather in summertime to plan a trip. Air temperature is seldom a problem but continuous
sunshine is.
If one have to deal with someone in cardiac arrest, eg by cold shock, the decision whether or not to
resuscitate has to been taken taken. Not allowing resuscitation currently belongs to the patients' rights
here in Belgium and I am wearing a registered “dog tag” that mentions that I don't want to be
resuscitated or intubated. The reason for this decision is that only 15% of the people who had
resuscitation from cardiac arrest survive and 10% has permanent brain (neurological) damage and / or
long rehabilitation.
Safety equipment and safety devices: especially for the solo paddler it is important not to loose the
kayak.
That is why I attach myself with a “quick release belt” and a safety rope to the bow of the kayak
The rope is long enough to perform a “cowboy reenter”.
However, securing the kayak to the kayaker remains a subject of (worldwide) discussion. Some kayak
clubs on the Coast (Australia) do require a safety line between the kayak and kayaker , they also are
mentioned in some safety instructions of the U.S. Coast Guard (Kayak Safety Line: Leashing Yourself
to a Kayak ). Anyway, it is something that you have to decide for yourself.
The PFD that I purchased has a "tail" between the legs to the front . I experienced that a PFD
easily got to high without that tail.
Recently I purchased an automatic life jacket (special for kayak, it is a short version) that also can be
worn above the PFD without being in the way for a reenter. I use this combination when kayaking solo
on big water.
To solve the problem of lack of pockets I wear a kayak chap (similar of a bike or horsemen chap)
with thigh pockets.
That way I can carry with me a couple of handflares, a foldable grappling hook (legal obligation
on Belgian sea ), and some first aid tape, even when I become a swimmer.
http://www.slideshare.net/paulnollen/kayak-grappling-hook
- I quickly realized that another problem needed a solution. My reasons for not participating in a “city
trip” with the kayaks (Ghent, a city with a lot of small open chanels) was mostly based on the fact that
it was hard to get out the channels if I had to pee, and then, once disembarked I would be still between
the houses in the middle of a city. And, being somewhat older, when I have to go I have to go, there is
no time to waist.
Another interesting fact is that in Holland (a neighbored country of mine that I often visit to kayak) one
third of the drown men are found with their relief zipper open. An (urgent) pee can be very dangerous.
http://www.knrm.nl/_sitefiles/file/zeevast/zeevast-folders/Folder%20Man%20overboord.pdf
A very bad solution I saw to often is not to drink when embarking on, or during, a kayak trip. This can
lead to fast exhaustion or other discomfort. Eating and drinking while performing a physical exercise
has to be taken care of with some knowledge of the subject and can't be neglected without punishment.
Google gave no practical solutions, also in other languages, because one has to know the right
keywords.
But then I found the glider pilots in Germany. They use a solution both for man and woman and their
position in a glider, and the pee problems, are resemblant to the kayak.
http://aviation.derosaweb.net/relief/ and http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/pinkeln-e.html
However, I only can discuss the solution for men. For the women it is waiting for an "entrepreneurial"
lady.
To test, I bought a set of "self-adhesive external catheters" with urine bag 500ml .
For use in a wet suit I don't us a bag, only a valve. It also works fine but I have to stabilize with a
peddlefloat when I have a leg “outside”.
For the moment I use this system now for about a year and I am very pleased with it. It is a great
comfort that I don't have to pay attention to this problem anymore.
Because I have a Peak UK dry suit with an inside leg zipper from ankle to ankle it is no problem to get
to the valve of the urine bag. But other manufacturers with another system to enter the dry suit can
deliver a custom ankle zipper on request (for example : Kokatat at 51 $ for a 20 cm ankle zipper, price
2013)
I do understand that not only the technical solution is important but perhaps even more
important is the psychological and social acceptance.
The German glider pilots have already succeeded but this is clearly also a task for monitors,
supervisors and sport organizations, in particular the senior sports guides.
- Another problem is the potential overloading of the wrist joint and the muscles of the forearm. One
can try to place the peddle blades parallel instead of under an angle. If the wind is not excessive
(above 6 Bf), this can be a good solution.
One also can try right to keep the wrist joints more straight by stretching the fingers of the upper “push
hand”. Also the lower wrist joint (pivot point) can be more straight by only holding the peddle between
thumb and index finger.
Anyway, using alternating techniques is certainly a plus for fingers, wrist joints and forearm muscles.
Also, the application to the paddle of a “grip” or “taping” as is used for the badminton and tennis racket
has a very good effect on reducing the strength needed to hold the peddle.
I myself have chosen a "Prestige Pro" HEAD taping that I knew from playing badminton.
Paul Nollen
Belgium