regarding ww boats
I definitely agree with kwikle in regards to keyhole cockpits and ww boats. If you flip in your sea kayak and you’re falling out of the boat (being sucked out in surf doesn’t count), then your outfitting is woefully inadequate. WW boaters spend so much time outfitting their boats that it’s almost obsessive. Granted most production kayaks these days do have cavernous cockpits which could only be effectively used by the largest paddlers, which may add to the problem. I think ocean cockpits and low foredecks allow sea kayakers the kind of fit that whitewater boats do with padding which is where the appeal is. Basically if I flip in my whitewater boats, I can be upside down and being tugged around in a hole and never even consider being pulled out. My touring kayak prior to it’s introduction to some minicell was a bathtub that I would splash out of. I personally prefer keyhole cockpits but I have limited experience in ocean cockpits so I can’t state an opjective opinion between the two.
yep
the new tempest phase 3 seat is 1/2" lower than the ol’ one. closer to the sole gives better stability but… you lose some leverage. I addded the 1/2 inch back in my wifes boat when I retrofit the new seat. it’s also wider and a better shape!
for sure on the backrest. any boats back support system should be outta the way when the paddler is sitting up straight, rotating correctly and paddling. I hardly touch mine in any of the umteen boats i have.
btw- i’ll have to say my SOF is the least comfy. and the cockpit’s too tiny! 
steve
a skirt is
a skirt is a skirt.
any sized cockpit can be sealed properly. a properly designed skirt is the answer.
steve
The difference with the 'Bou…
…is that the thigh braces are set back and low, so they catch the thicker, more muscular part of your thigh, which helps wedge you in place. The support in the BBK cockpit is up around your knees.
I haven’t decided if I’m going to keep the Aral and modify it or just sell it and build a replacement. If I keep it, I’ll probably replace the fore and aft hatches (mine also has a day hatch) with larger ones to make it more useful for camping. However, I’m leaning more toward selling it.
The Silhouette cockpit is BBK sized…
…so the comments I made above apply. Linda’s Rumour has the same size cockpit and she’s pretty tiny, so I installed foam thigh braces that converted the cockpit into a “mini keyhole”. There are pics of it in my Kayak Outfitting album on Webshots at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom
Perhaps that would work for you, too, Keith.
Of course you’re right that preference plays a big part and I’m not trying to imply that ocean cockpits are the ultimate solution for everyone. That’s simply not true.
As for the whitewater thing, I haven’t paddled a whitewater boat, but I have paddled quite a few keyhole cockpit boats. Many fit fine and were comfortable, but I still prefer the feel and versatility of leg positions in the ocean cockpit. BTW, I understand that whitewater boats have huge cockpits as a hedge against entrapment in pinning situations. I would never suggest a small cockpit for whitewater use.
Improper footrest setting = back pain
One of the problems that I had and I see many other people having is that if you set your footrest too far back, it forces you into the backrest, which causes pressure and back pain. One of the reasons this is less of a problem in an SOF is that as long as the footrest is far enough forward, you can sit anywhere you want in the cockpit, since there is no defined seat. You don’t even need to make contact with the backrest. I know several people who’ve removed the backbands from their boats entirely. Some have foam pads and some don’t even have that.
I agree with your comments about custom boats. Some of the most comfortable boats I’ve been in have been 18" beam stitch and glue boats. They fit perfectly without anything more than 1/4" or so of Minicel padding and responded to every move like they were reading my mind.
nice job on the thigh bracing on the
rumour, yeah, I may make some further modifications to the foam thigh braces I have along the lines of what you have. But I am worried I will rip them out getting in and out with my drysuit on, and rolling, but we’ll see.
yeah you’re right but
I’ve always kept that in mind and I don’t think that’s my problem. The seat is pitched back or elevated in the front more than some other seats I’ve seen. In effect your weight is shifted into the backrest. Some say that this is a good way to keep pressure off the sciatic nerve but it don’t seem right to me.
I’m still working on the fit in my 19" wide S&G. So far my butt, back and hips are snug and very comfy but I’ve somehow situated the weight of my legs down to my heels and they go numb after a while. This body/kayak fit thing is an art form. I’ll need to work that one out yet. I’ve built 2 SOFs and they seem perfect for me without any messing around.
Linda’s have held up OK, but…
…if you’re concerned, you could always lay up some fiberglass thigh braces. One way to do it is to install foam flush with the bottom of the coaming, then use it as a mold for several layers of glass extending from the foam to a few inches under the deck. Once the epoxy has cured, add another layer of foam under the glass and the deck, then carve to shape. You’ll end up with something like Linda’s thigh braces, except with fiberglass between the two layers.
I know what you mean
That’s why I have customs seats in all of my boats.
One reason that SOF seating works so well is that since you’re sitting on a flexible skin (whether padded or not), essentially the seat conforms to your butt, rather than the other way around as in hard-shelled boats.
Whitewater
The trend in whitewater boats seems to be towards larger cockpit openings paired with more aggressive stock outfitting. The reason was graphically illustrated in my swiftwater rescue class when the instructors set up a boat in a vertical bow-down position (simulating a drop pin), and invited the students to try to get out of it. If you couldn’t get a foot on the cockpit rim to push yourself out it was near impossible, and that was without the river pressing on your back.
S.O.T.A.
State Of The Art.
Go check out a few of the more ‘modern’ sea kayak designs that have incorperated whitewater type cockpits into sea boats.
we’ve been doing it for 3 years now.
I have been tumbled and maytagged in both my ww boat and my sea boat w/o issue.
steve
well
the new chatham definitely uses the ww type outfitting from what I have seen, haven’t paddled it though.