Hmm
I’m a little shorter and lighter than the OP and paddle a 17’6" LV Explorer.
Oddly enough, I prefer it as a daytripper to many shorter boats that happen not to fit my body as well. Paddled it in whitecaps Sunday, with the wind up to the point where bare trees were making that thin high screaming sound and windsurfers were blasting by. This boat is surprisingly maneuverable, much more so than I was led to believe from others’ comments. Its fit is fantastic for rolling, too.
Do I get blown around by wind? Of course. Just like I do in shorter boats. I find the tall-decked ones are the absolute worst for this, not the longest ones.
I don’t paddle lots and lots of sea kayaks (few low-volume demos available here), but I do spend quite a bit of time paddling what I own. And since my first 3 sea kayaks were all 16.5’ long I know full well what their cargo limitations were from several longish trips (between 1 week and 1 month). I remember you stated you had only done 3- or 4-day trips, for which these smaller boats do have sufficient storage. But as I found out, longer trips (including solo trips) result in too much gear on deck or in the cockpit, plus the hatch compartments are crammed tight.
If you like the shorter kayaks, that’s great. But given that you have no long-trip experience, trying to argue down the possibility that a longer kayak might work for a small female paddler comes across as sour grapes.
a response to pika & Celia
pikabike, it’s another point of view, based on another set of criteria. Because it doesn’t agree with yours -and is based on as much logic - doesn’t make it sour grapes. You have become quite negative about whatever I post. You make your points - and we can agree or disagree - but you have to get in a personal shot. You don’t see me doing that with your posts.
Now you are due for one: Tend to your own vineyard before you comment on mine.
Celia, nowhere in this thread does it say what I paddle. Unlike quite a few people here I don’t regularly weave some mention of my boat into a thread, often tangentially, with some gospel-like fervor how my boat is the answer. If I were to name everyone that does this, this thread would take us thru winter.
Celia, I am not saying it is you that does this. You discuss your boats in a germane subject,and are honest about it’s capabilities, the things you’ve come to love and the things that are not so lovable.
Every time I’ve posted in response to advice about boat selections, my response has included possibilities - and that’s all they are - from many different makers. Quite different from some employee from a kayak company jumps in with a model or two from their line.
I like to discuss boat features and some elements of design (as an interested amateur like most here). I don’t campaign for this boat or that. I like to learn what criteria different people use in their boat selection. I am very tolerant of different ideas as long as there is some honesty about whose bread is being buttered.
This board is littered with agendas from the business side of the paddling world. They can take some of that marketing zeal and support Brent’s site with an ad instead of having anonymous employees do it on the cheap.
Mention of boat
I am pretty sure you've mentioned the Suka in a prior thread about day hatches, on deck clutter type stuff. If I am wrong about that and mentioned something inappropriate there, sorry.
But my mention of the Suka had nothing to do with an implication that you had it in this thread. I mentioned that because those design specs are what you tend to state as a marker for smaller paddlers. And your statements are often quite bald. You have a lot of syntax that will state outright that a given length is too long for a smaller paddler, or a width is too wide, and just stop there. For more seasoned paddlers no big deal - most have probably been in these boats or will soon. But for newer paddlers these declaratives can be confounding.
If your dialogue tended to talk about other characteristics of the design - a good example is the NDK Explorer which is yes, on the specs too big a boat for someone my size. But I've had it in all kinds of conditions including surf and its maneuverability is still great. And its overall design and volume can be helpful in learning some skills. I took the Vela to my first surf class, and it was not good idea. The boat was too quick to react and I spent all my time renewing my acquaintance with body surfing. I needed the extra time the Explorer gave me to react while I was still learning to stay upright at all. I finally got some basics down so next time around I'll bring out the Vela. But I really advanced my skills a whole lot better by starting with the Explorer LV, or if I'd borrowed the regular Romany.
Am I going to haul the Explorer out for a day paddle these days? Not unless I think I will need a good rescue platform for bigger people - but I do take it out on some days because of that. So the boat comes out in the winter more often for day paddles, because I know I can get a bigger person out of the water a lot quicker and more reliably with that boat than the Vela.
One example of your statements is above - "no kayak 17'5" (the Cetus LV) is going to be 'just right' for a woman 5'3" [sic 5'4"] and 115 lbs."
Well, there are women of that scale who find that size will work fine for their needs. Even perfectly. That's your opinion, and all it would take is to say something like IMO that length boat is not a fit for... you can see where I am going here. In cyberspace certainty is not always a virtue.
It's not the opinion that is the issue, but the way of presenting the case. Especially when we are talking about a boat that has been designed to work for a paddler of the OPer's size. (Same target size as the Vela in fact.) It's not like anyone is advocating that this paddler consider a Quest, or a full size Cetus.
As to the marketing charge, uskayaks has not exactly abused privileges, and these boats are on the rare side to find right now. Knowing of upcoming models is also something that many of us appreciate, since in general kayak makers are terrible at maintaining their web sites.
A Boat for Every Butt
Very good points, Celia.
The simple fact is that boat fit IS very individualized. I paddled a Vela for a few years and was very happy with it until I sat in the ExplorerLV, which fit me much better and enabled me to push myself more. Yes, it was a lot of boat for me to move around, although that’s gotten easier since I really worked on increasing the efficiency of my forward stroke and on my strength and stamina in general, but the fit was right. Even better was my RomanyLV, the kayak I paddle 99.9% of the time. Since there was no need for me to have two “small” boats,the Vela being slightly shorter than the RomanyLV, I kept the one that fit me the best and sold the other.
I’ve had women who are my height and weight try the RomanyLV, only to have them find it doesn’t fit them at all. Conversely, both my husband and a male friend of ours who clocks in at 165 and is 5’10" fit in the boat. It’s a bit tight, but they can sit and paddle it a lot more comfortably than some of my women friends whose dimensions compare to mine.
The CetusLV was the first P&H kayak to fit my husband although his weight and height puts him in more than a few P&H boats. He paddled it for a day up in Maine and was quite enamored of it although he found that his Avocet was a bit more manueverable in rocks.
If any thing, this thread emphasizes the need to demo every boat you have in mind, and in a variety of conditions. Buying a boat on some one’s say so – I was told that NDK would never “work” for me, which proved to be totally wrong – is neither prudent nor economical.
As for reps or dealers “advertising” their wares on this website: so what? There’s other things more annoying to get your knickers in a knot over in this world.
Deb, well spoken! (nm)
No personal shot in my post
I pointed out what you had admitted in an earlier thread: that you had never taken a kayaking trip longer than 3 or 4 days. I am not misquoting what you said–which is something that you have done with my posts before.
You state in absolute terms that a long sea kayak can never be a good kayak for a small female paddler. Several people have given examples contrary to your professed opinion. Those our OUR opinions, which have real-life experience to back them up. So if you truly are live-and-let-live, then let us have our say, too.
Let me say this…
I certainly don’t agree that it’s a boat for some “large size” males, or a woman with some “heft” to her. I’m 5’10" 178 lbs and I don’t like the fit at all. Great boat, but not for me.
On the other hand, my wife is 5’3" 115 lbs and paddled the CETUS LV all summer. She absolutely loves it and said the fit is probably one of the most comfortable and “just right” boats for her. So much so that she has a one on order.