Mine is on the wall, otherwise what KM said. Except I made mine.
That all makes sense to me roym. The ribs do seem to make a difference with the Greenland-ish paddle I made last year but to be honest I can’t tell why they do. It’s very obvious, but with no amount of study in hydro-dynamics, I just can’t say why they do.
Here is a picture of 2 I made. One with ribs and one without them.
GL Paddles by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
The paddles look unbalanced because I had to climb a ladder to get them all in the picture and one side is closer to the camera. They are actually evenly made.
Because the blades are a bit thinner on this new Aleut paddle then they are on last year’s GL paddle and because they are narrower (3-1/4" compared to 4-5/8") the Aleut is lighter by about 1/2 pound despite it being a full foot longer. The GL paddle I made has ribs on both sides and the Aleut only on one side, so it is made from less wood by volume, even if it is longer wood.
So your comments make sense to me. It may be apples and oranges.
I may just have to wait until the water is open and warm enough for my wet-suit so I can go find out myself if I like it.
The hydro studies I read concluded a modern blade to be the most efficient , Aleutian second and Greenland 3rd, using the same amount of blade area, I didn’t bother looking at the math because it confirmed my in seat on water testing.
I have severe medical issues and the Aleutian is the most comfortable paddle I use. I’m sure in part because it is custom fit to me, and lighter then the carbon paddle I have.
I am in good shape for the shape I’m in, but I have done a lot of damage to both shoulders in the past years (Played rough when I was young. 33 bone breaks and hopefully no more) So I do low-angle paddling for the most part. I will do a high angle stroke a few times if I need to maneuver fast to position myself, but 99% of the time I do low angle strokes. I was told the Aleut paddle was very good for low angle, so I wanted to try it. So far I have not had it in the water. I hope to try it out Saturday but if I can’t get to the lake I may wait until Monday or Tuesday. Because it’s so flat on one side and because it’s narrow I can see it would be easy on the shoulders, but how it will differ from regular GL paddles I can’t even guess yet.
Any feedback or tip on Alaska Style paddling would be appreciated. (if they are at all different then any other low angle strokes or performance)
Odds are we would never be able to agree on what determines a Paddle to be most efficient. Fatigue difference between two different paddles , paddled for the same distance and in the same time allotment. But how do you determine a measurable amount of fatigue? This would be my criteria and it isn’t properly measurable and repeatable.
This would also be variable dependent on skill level and stroke mastering with each paddle style. I’ve seen fluid mechanics engineers argue to an impasse, over this very topic…
I’d bet you are right Roym. Fluid movement and force exerted VS propulsion attained per unit of force are all calculatable but “feeling” is not, because no 2 people are the same. Just the length of someone’s arms and height of their shoulder over the water would change all the figures.
I guess I’ll just have to try them and see.
The problem with “try and see” is monetary expense in either time or money, or both.
But the experience of learning never stops being fun.
1 Like
Szihn, if you’re getting flutter with a GP, it’s most likely your technique. There are three key elements to focus on:
Unlike the stroke used with a modern spoon blade, which starts at the ankle, the GP stroke starts around mid-calf. Reaching too far forward with a GP is inefficient and tends to create aeration.
With a spoon blade, you apply maximum force immediately after the blade enters the water. With a GP, force should build gradually as the blade enters the water, reaching maximum around mid-thigh when the blade is fully submerged. Applying force too soon with a GP will lead to aeration and flutter.
Canting the paddle makes a huge difference in the efficiency of the GP stroke, dramatically increasing “bite” on the water and eliminating flutter. It takes a little time to get used to the canted stroke, as initially it feels as if you’re going to capsize toward the paddle. Once you learn to resist that pull, it becomes really easy and natural.
1 Like
I made some GL paddles last year and used them for several months. I have found that everything you said in your post is correct bnystrom. I got some paddling tips from Paulo Ouellet in Canada and he said the same things. I tried what he said, and he was right.
But I also found the ribbed paddles I made reduced or eliminated the flutter. They are far more forgiving. Not that the GL paddles were hard to use. They are not. You just have to train yourself a bit to use them correctly.
I made my first GP ,seems like years ago, with Bryan’s help. I was a bit nervous because I’d never paid that much for a board.
I made it to the std measurements . After the first paddle, I reported that there was a lot of flutter. Bryan told me there weren’t any 6’5" Inuits! But , I also wasn’t canting it properly.
Szihn, I’m not at all surprised that Aleut-style paddles don’t tend to flutter, for the same reason modern dihedral spoon blades don’t. One could reasonably state that the Aleut actually invented the dihedral spoon blade and modern paddle makers just rediscovered it.
String, I remember that line… 
1 Like
I have made several 7, 7.5 and 8 foot GL paddles for myself and several friends. One lady I give one to is shorter then I am and also one man, but all the rest of them are taller (not too hard to be, because I am only 5 foot 6" tall….or short, depending on how you look at it)
I see a pattern. The short paddlers can use the long paddle as long as they are strong enough to pull against the water in the larger arc. But the tall paddlers with the short paddles seem to have more problems when learning. I am expecting it has to do not as much with arm length, but more the angle of attack, simply because the slant of the paddle from shoulder or neck height from a 6 foot 5 inch man is much steeper then it is from a man of 5 foot 6 inches. That’s simply an observation, but it may be worth the time to look at. So far I have made no conclusions.
The longer blade seems to be more solid in the water than a short one but I have not figured out why. The longer blade is a longer lever against the center of the paddle (and paddlers hands) so that seems backwards to me. I would have guessed the short GL paddle would be easier to use but that has not been what I have seen and felt for myself. Once you get the angle correct it’s about as easy with any of them, but in the learning the longer ones do seem easier.
Any ideas or information to educate me are welcomed here. I have 55 years of wood working experience so making them is not hard for me, but their use is altogether different. I am in “1st grade” in paddling, so using what I make is still a pretty new experience.
My sister and nephews live in Alaska and my nephew sent me pics of an Aleut paddle from a museum in Homer (or maybe is was Kasilof) and that’s what I copied. It’s a full 9 foot 1 inch long. Those who have used such paddles up there are writing to me and saying how easy they are to use, but so far I have not had it in the water yet. At 9 feet, it’s not for shallow water, that for sure.
The pictures I have are of old paddles and there is a huge difference in length and shapes from the coasts of Alaska, so as with today’s paddlers I expect the natives up there did a lot of experimenting too. Men made paddles to do things they wanted to do and shaped them to suit their individual preferences. I can see no reason those doing this as a life style 100 years ago (or more) would not have as much or more interest in paddle performance as those who only do it for fun have today.
His pictures show me paddles from just over 5 feet long to one that is over 12 feet. Blades and looms are varied to an extreme. One that is very interesting to me looks a lot like a small GL paddle but has tips that look like disks which are about 6" wide and the blades are only about 3" wide. The paddle is short too, under 6 feet long. The display says it was for use in marsh waters by duck hunters on the south coast. I am sure it would work, but the shape seems odd to me. It would probably be very good for fast bow and stern rudders, but that is not something you’d need in the marshes. Of course we can also acknowledge that sometimes the museum staff are just making a best-guess too. I have seen that many times in the area of firearms made in the last 2 centuries, and have had conversations many time with museum staff in several places about the details of various guns. Restoring antique firearms and recreating them is what I do for a living, so working with museum pieces is something I started doing in 1971. It’s not uncommon to see signs posted on guns that have mistakes because we have only our best guesses at the time the signs are made, and as new information becomes available sometime the signs need to me modified or replaced. I bring this up because the sign under the “disked” paddle says it was used by natives to hunt ducks, and that may be 100% true but that doesn’t prove it was made exclusively for that activity. If our grand-dad use a WW1 30-06 to kill squirrels it is not proof that rifle was made just for squirrel hunting.
The ice is now all gone from Boysen lake so I expect to try my new Aleut paddle out in the next few days. Liam says they are the very best for rolling, especially if you extend them, but the ice has been gone for 3 days and I don’t think I want to roll until the lake has a bit more sun on it. It’s obviously above 32 degrees now but probably not a lot above. I have a wet suit but no dry suit. Boysen is pretty shallow compared to many mountain lakes so it does warm faster then most others, but for now I think it’s too cold for me to go into whit the clothing I have.
I am really looking forward to trying the Aleut paddle and I will go with it in the next week, but I don’t think I’ll deliberately roll for another month. Until the water warms up some I am goin g to say very close to shore.
All the GP I’ve made since the first one have been around 7’. The original I cut down for Castoff.
I use a Swift wind paddle which is a hybrid of a Euro and a GP.
String, can you explain castoff to me?
Castoff is often inexplicable but he’s a kayaker, canoeist , sailor, craftsman and friend.
He has more hyperbolic stories than most based on real experience and has no off switch.
Oh, I thought it was something to do with the shape of the paddle. Like Cast-Off in a gunstock.
Now I understand. It’s a person, not a shape.
Sometimes I call him Flotsam.
Szihn, one thing to keep in mind is that Aleut boats were often quite wide and high-decked compared to Greenland kayaks, and in some cases could carry an entire family inside. That’s likely what accounts for the extreme lengths of some paddles and the wide variation in length. Typically what you want is a paddle that’s proportional to the paddler’s height and the boat width. For a typical adult man in a boat that’s 20" to 22" wide, that will be in the 84" to 90" range, but beyond that it’s largely personal preference.
As for the “duck hunting” or “marsh” paddle, the short length is probably for better maneuverability in narrow channels and to keep the upper blade low to prevent spooking game.
1 Like
I can attest to that. In the summer we often paddle small creeks off the Waccamaw River. They are often bordered with sawgrass and are moderately tidal.
I’ve been in one that was about a foot wider than the boat .There was no turning back. A shorter paddle would have been handy.
We emerged from that one with vegetation covered boats and more than a few small cuts.
Ok, that’s helping me “fill in the blanks”. I am pretty new to all of this, so I want to hear from those that have used kayaks in many different places and conditions. You guys point out some facts I didn’t put together in my mind.
Thanks
@string would you have a photo of that Swift Wind paddle please?
I recently got my Norwegian Wood Aleutian paddle from Anders Thygesen of Kajakkspesialisten and I’m loving it so far for its buoyancy and handling and it’s easier on my arms and shoulders compared to my Werner Camano carbon bent shaft with fiberglass blades and my unbranded carbon fiber Greenland paddle - so much so that I’m selling both of them and getting a wooden Greenland paddle from Gram Kayaks with carbon fiber ferrule. The only thing I don’t like about the NW Aleutian paddle is that it has a stainless steel ferrule.