Are Composite always Faster than Polys?

another advantage that people forget
Ease of repair, including field repairs.

Agreed

– Last Updated: Jun-09-14 2:46 PM EST –

I'll second dafishman, the Labrador Sea is a good big-paddler boat. I'm guessing it would be a bit faster than the Kestrel.

The Kestrel 160 has a huge cockpit, 18.5" x 39".
The Labrador Sea cockpit is 16.5" x 32.25". This is about the same as the Q400, which I get in without much trouble, I'm almost your size.

That price for the Labrador is a serious steal - you could paddle it for the rest of the summer and sell it for the same (or more) if you don't like it. Those Winters hulls are really nice, in my opinion. I love my Q400/Caspian Sea, it's forgiving in all respects, handles confused conditions particularly well.

"All other things being equal"
Composite + carbon paddle is faster than rotomolded + plastic paddle.



You can add any modifying factors you want to that: hull design, operator, weight, water conditions, whatever. That doesn’t change the fact that there are real differences between stiff and soft materials.



Personally I don’t care at all about speed. I care a LOT about effort and impact on the joints. I like to do as little work as possible for the distance traveled and have as little joint impact as possible.








Paddlers that are composite
‘paddlers that are composite are probably faster’



That’s why I’m so slow is races!! I’m made of the wrong material >_<



:smiley:

material is small difference
If you had 2 hulls where the only difference was the material, then the composite would be slightly faster. But you have 2 very different boats here, so the material likely would not have a noticeable difference as compared to the pother differences (length, hull shape, etc.).



Not sure where the folks got paddle differences in also, as I didn’t see any mention of paddle differences in the OP’s question. Yes, better paddle will make a huge difference. Much more difference than hull material IMHO.

I knew Fast Polly in high school!
only distantly though; I had standards back then.

how much time do you save patching
plastic? In the field?

Times change.

composite > rotomolded

– Last Updated: Jun-11-14 12:07 AM EST –

I don't believe it's just acceleration….its also top speed. Rotomolded boats flex and deform as you shove them it into the water in front of your boat. I was told that a noticeable percent of your effort is wasted on this type of movement as opposed to the pure movement of driving your boat forward, sort of like riding a bike with soft-soled shoes where a percent of your total effort is spent compressing your sneakers soles rather than pushing the pedal down. It's less obvious to me why this would be true for a kayak, but this is what I have been told. Also, as poly boats generally weigh more, they sit slightly lower in the water (assuming same hull shape) which means that they have to push more water out of the way as they move forward. I don't know how big of a factor this is, but even if it is a very small amount for each paddle stroke, if you multiply that by how many paddle strokes you take over a 5 hour trip, it does not seem unreasonable that this adds up. Another advantage of composite boats is that you don't have to worry about the hull oil-canning in the hot summer sun when out of the water (this was a problem for me with my first boat, which I loved, a Wilderness Systems Sealution). On the other hand, it IS really nice to feel comfortable dragging your boat over a gravel beach or resting it on a concrete boat ramp or paddling in areas where you risk scraping bottom on oyster beds (not a treat in a poly boat either, but not the heartbreaker that it is in a composite boat).

By the way, although I am not obsessed with speed, it is an important factor for me. I am a late sleeper and generally get out on the water kind of late. If I want to make it to any of the barrier islands I like to frequent and lollygag about a bit and then get back to the put in before dark, I need a fast boat.

nice

lots
I’ve never damaged the plastic to where it needed repairing. But I admit I am not doing regular rock gardening.



I have the impression that the kind of impact required to put a hole in my P&H 3 layer plastic would be rather more catastrophic to a composite. But I don’t have hard data on this. Does anyone?



KP

differences
The numbers I have heard, so may or may not be right, is that the performance improvement of composite over plastic is in the low single digits. Like 2-3% faster. I wouldn’t notice this.



The challenge in actually determining this is that I can’t think of any case where there are plastic and composite boats that are exactly the same. Even ones where there are models of the same name in both materials (i.e. many Valley, Looksha IV, etc.) the boats have been very different such that the difference in materials is not noticeable.



On weight, a plastic boat is usually 5-10 pounds heavier than a standard composite. This also is more of a rounding error in regards to performance, given that boats are made to carry 300-400 pounds.



Yes, composites are less likely to oil can in heat when strapped to a car. And as someone said before are repairable in the field. And are lighter. But are more expensive and more likely to need to be repaired (so people baby them, limiting where they would paddle them). And more expensive. So it is all a set of trade offs.



Back to the OPs original question, the Kestrel likely would be faster, but not because it is composite, but instead because of length and hull shape. The other factors that generally have more impact than material.



And as you said about shoes on a bike (and the matching pedals used) making a difference, this would be equivalent to talking about paddles.

Thank You for your comments!

– Last Updated: Jun-10-14 11:24 PM EST –

I have decided to go composite, going to try to get the labrador sea by swift tomorrow. The seller says it's Kevlar but i think it's made of fiberglass.. As regards to the speed discussion, i think it will do well touring the 15 mile long lake nearest to me.. I will also try the cockpit out before i buy the boat since as stated it's a little smaller than the kestrel 160, although there is 2'' more depth to the labrador sea so i dont think it will be a problem. will update posting when i get the boat.