@Sparky961 said:
Almost every one of the comments from @Avi have focused on (or at least mentioned) speed and tracking, with a stated destination of rivers but the aspiration for bigger water. I’m just not convinced a short fat boat is the right way to go here. The limitation is, of course, the storage space. But getting a boat that fits in the garage doesn’t make it fit for a particular purpose.
Speaking of which, I’d like to know the dimensions and layout of that garage. I’ve never seen a garage that didn’t have room for a boat that was much longer than 12 feet. I wonder if what the OP sees as a limiting factor is actually a solve-able problem.
Ingram also into biking and have 6 bones in the garage. It is a solvable problem (garage space) but it would require some effort. However the tsunami 125 is 12’ 9"and seems good enough as my first kayak.
I agree with GBG – the average vehicle garage is 18’ long so I don’t get that the OP has no room for a longer boat, which he clearly would be happier with given his stated ambitions for paddling. The “limiting” factor is often that people think they have to suspend a kayak from the ceiling and the overhead door gets in the way, But a kayak can be hung on its side from a rack or straps suspended from a wall and most garages allow space for that alongside the vehicle.
My statements on the Tsunami series arise from having known a WS dealer and talking at length with them about the various models while helping friends and family members select boats. The “5” series was always higher volume per length for higher displacement for heavier paddlers in the shorter boats and larger paddlers( or expedition cargo loading) in the longer ones. Celia explained that very well.
Being 5’ 5" and 145 pounds I generally paddle low volume kayaks (have 4 in the fleet at the moment). I have often shared my Easky 15LV as a loaner with several friends in around the height/weight range of the OP (for instance, my 5’ 11", 175 pound brother, a 5’ 10’, 160 pound friend and the 5’ 8", 180 pound ex boyfriend) and they have all commented on how “sweet” the boat is for speed and handling compared to the more common medium volume touring kayaks they have used or own. My ex eventually bought a standard volume Easky 15 so he would have room for cargo but still preferred my LV for day tripping when I would let him use it.
I would suggest Avi take a road trip to visit Marshall’s store in Hyde Park and take a look at and test paddle where possible his offerings. I have not paddled the Venture Islays, but have been impressed enough with all of the Venture models (which are, of course, a branch of the renowned British P & H sea kayaking brand) to presume they are also a sweet ride. He should be able to get a used Islay 14 for close to what he would shell out for the short fat boats he has been considering. Even new, an Islay 14LV is under $1000. Ventures are made in the UK and are very nicely finished and accessorized. Among the perks are a very comfortable seat with floating back-band, a simple but ingenious paddle parking bungee ahead of the coaming and a metal rod molded into the stern deck that makes it easy to secure the boat with a cable lock to prevent theft or tampering. Don’t know if Avi cares about looks, but my Venture often attracts admiring comments when I’m out in it. Pics attached of my 120 pound friend Barbara and 175 pound brother in the Easky (apologize for my bro refusing to wear his PFD – I usually insist – but the creek we were on that day was only chest deep so I quite nagging him.)
Link below the pics is to stats on the Islay that Marshall says he may have available.
Willow is right, “The “limiting” factor is often that people think they have to suspend a kayak from the ceiling and the overhead door gets in the way, But a kayak can be hung on its side from a rack or straps suspended from a wall and most garages allow space for that alongside the vehicle.” Further, if you suspend the boat well inboard of the ends, it’s easy to hang it from the ceiling and still have a few feet of overlap of the open overhead door. One of the canoe hoists that I built for a close friend does exactly that. I think the boat overlaps the open door by roughly four feet.
In defense of small garages, mine is one-car with a low ceiling because it has an attic. Has a tool bench along one side; storage shelves/cabinets on the other and another bench at the end. No way can I get a car and a kayak in at the same time.
Rookie— sounds like you have a garage similar to what we had torn down last year. It was the original to the house, and had an addition off the back to make it longer for storage.
The original was probably no more than 6X10 but we do have a picture of the first car registered in the Soo, using the garage. 1902 curved dash Olds. Met the present owner of the car last year when she stopped by wanting to take a present day picture of the garage. We had had it torn down a month before.
Our present garage is a two car, however the van is too tall and too wide for either of the garage doors. Having it gutted this fall for better access and 1 larger door. The joys of owning an old money pit. The gazebo is the official kayak home.
The “garage” end of the walk-out basement in the 128 year old house I bought for a rental property this Spring is about 6’ x 15’ but I presume it was a horse stable or root cellar.
Okay I have it narrowed down to three (at around 12 ft), which do you guys like the most:
WS Tsunami 125: 51lbs, 12.9 ft long, 26 in wide, 35.75 by 20 cockpit, 15" deep
Perception Carolina: 49 lbs, 12 ft long, 26 in wide, 39.5 by 21.5 cockpit, 14.5" deep
Delta 12.10: 43 lbs, 12.10 ft long, 25 in wide, 32.5 by 18 cockpit, 13.5" deep
I like the weight of the delta but the cockpit is the smallest (iam not that flexible). Its higher cost but for now lets assume money is not a variable. How fragile is that composite/plastic, I am assuming it must be good enough given the price and good reviews. The perception carolina seems nice good all around but the other two options have almost an extra ft.
One test of a boat model is how long they have been around.
Carolinas have been around for years.
It and the Tsunami are made a couple of miles from my house.
Confluence bought both parent companies. They are made in the same facility.
@Avi said:
I kind of like the weight of the delta. Should i be concerned about durability?
Not at all. It’s an ABS boat. ABS is very durable (and if there is a mishap, it’s easily repaired). I have two. One, a 14-footer, was dropped onto a concrete floor at the pool (by “helpers”). It bounced. No damage.
Time to mention longer term goals. The Delta is the only one of the 3 with cockpit dimensions that could well support more advanced skills. Like really handling the boat and taking it on edge. Tsunami next in line, a bit big but you might be able to make it work. Carolina way too big a cockpit for good fit for that stuff.
At some point you have to stop reading and do something.
I have been through several good boats that didn’t work for me but it took a few hours, or days, on the water to figure that out.
@string said:
At some point you have to stop reading and do something.
I have been through several good boats that didn’t work for me but it took a few hours, or days, on the water to figure that out.
What he said. ^^
We tried CL-- kept calling or arriving too late. Very, very, very little in the way of boat shopping in this end of the “Yoop” The nearest full service, non -big box outfitters, was about 90 miles away. We just decided to purchase based on reviews, what we felt were important features (dual bulkheads, litweight, and more), so we could hit the water.
So far no complaints and I suspect we picked well. Maybe 3-4 years from now may think about it differently.
Avi, the problem is that that only goal you have enunciated is going faster. As I said above there are differences in even those 3 boats in how suitable they are for skills that go with being in Sound.
You have gotten opinions. Marshall has offered excellent ideas and others have said they are. You just don’t seem to like those opinions.
Few first kayak purchases are “perfect”. You won’t and can’t know what will exactly fit your body or your intended usage until you actually sit in and paddle a range of boats. Most of us involved in kayaking serious waters have gone through from a couple to a dozen or more different boats as we learned what features affected performance and fit and tweaked what we paddled as we grew into the sport. You evidently don’t want to make the effort to test a range of boats on the water (so you really can’t understand what we are explaining to you in real terms.) When we offer valid reasons why certain boat specs won’t meet your stated desires you keep going back to those same models.
It’s common to not get the optimal boat on your newbie purchase. But rejecting the wisdom and recommendations of multiple folks with lots of experience is going to make it even LESS probable that you will find something reasonably appropriate. Your fixation on a short boat remains at odds with your expectations for speed and safe performance in the waters you say you plan to explore. To put this in automotive terms, you want to take golf carts to cruise the Autobahn.
At this point it may be more important to just pull the trigger on one of them so you can start to learn first hand what its limitations may or may not be.
If some of us seem cranky in our attitude it’s because we run into this a lot with newcomers. Anxious obsession with finding the “ideal” first boat can paralyze a newbie. We can offer you all the advice in the world but until you FEEL the difference in performance due to kayak designs in real world conditions much of it is not going to sink in. You are fixated on short boats, so flip a coin and probably best to just buy one of them. Most people enjoy their first kayak – kayaking is fun and if you have little or nothing to compare it to your first one tends to be exhilarating. But don’t say we didn’t tell you so if it eventually falls short of your expectations, especially on speed and rough water tracking…
I don’t plan on doing any ww kayaking. I will likely do slow moving rivers 90% of my time and occasionally hit the sound on calm days. For several reasons iam not ready to go with a 14’ kayak but the delta 12.10 is 92% of a 14’ and it’s got the double hauls do what am i still missing? It should be faster then the aspire and safer. Otherwise why stop at 14, maybe get a 16 or larger. Buy i do appreciate all the inputs i recieved. I feel like understand the sport much more now. And i agree i need to start do it for a while and if i truly get into it I’ll figure out what changes i need to make and get a second one. I do think that one of the three i listed is a good half way compromise to explore this sport further. I think of the three i listed the delta offers the longest, cockpit that provides good control [which i won’t need 90%of the time, and light weight. My only two concerns with the delta is the small cockpit won’t be easy for me to enter and the durability
WW? Not sure where that came from.
The fit in the Delta will get better with seat time.
And your rookie (not the person below)is showing when you say 90% of the time you don’t need to control the boat.
I guess if the river you paddle is filled with rocks you may run into, the Delta could be damaged. But my guess is it would just bounce off unless you’re moving at warp speed. Checked the Delta site and they use the same repair material as Eddyline: Devcon. Six bucks at the local box store. Here’s info on repairs: https://eddyline.com/customer-service/care-repair/thermo-form-repair-carbonlite-repair (they call their ABS “carbonlite”).
On the other hand, learning boat control would help you avoid those rocks. Once you get into a well fitting kayak, take a few forward strokes, move your weight to your right or left cheek and see what the kayak does and what your legs do. Just keep your head centered.
The challenge of entering a 31 x 17 cockpit: Is it a matter of flexibility? If so, you can always improve that.
