Jubilee
the Jubilee also comes in a HM configuration, the H2O does not. it only comes in the HS configuration. However the old style Nordkapp and the Jubilee both in HM hull, have different amount of rocker and handle different from each other even thought they are both HM hulls
Very good thread
I agree with most of this thread having paddled all the boats except a Jubilee. My personal preference is for loose, playful boats. I can make anything go along fine at a touring pace, and can (have) paddle(d)for a month out of boats that many can’t imagine doing a weekend in. So I would far prefer a Pintail over an Avocet. Like sing, my passion is surf kayaking in HP boats, and my personal sea touring these days involves more coastal play than slogging out mega days. I find most production boats too big, and too tracky. I am, however, not the bulk of the market. Bigger trackier boats outsell the others by far. Many buyers accurately choose characteristics that will enhance their touring experience, and I believe for most that is comfort, capacity, stability within reason, and tracking. All great products. But ask a WW or surf paddler what they prefer, and my guess would be they’ll go for a loose boat. Take care.
Nordkapp: confusing designations
– Last Updated: Oct-20-05 3:58 PM EST –
Valley's old designations for the various Nordkapp variations is quite confusing.
As far as I understand, there are (thus) two "dimensions" of Nordkapp variations.
1) Twitchy versus non-twichy hull shapes. The original Nordkapp had a twitchy hull. It's this character that has given "all" Nordkapps the reputation of being "expert" boats. The original Nordkapp was (basically) designed to be paddled with stuff (which made it more stable).
2) The HM (hull modified) and the "standard" hull. The HM has an extended "integral" skeg. This makes the HM version track much more stiffly. As far as I can tell, this was not very well-liked, generally.
All Nordkapps are some permutations of the two above independent properties.
I'm guessing that a lot of the confusion stems from Valley's interest in continuing the manufacturing of their "flagship" boat and making it more marketable.
I tried a Nordkapp Jubilee (standard, non-twitchy hull) and liked it. This version responded well to edging. The deck height is higher than I prefer.
Pintail - Ellesmere?
Barely tried one and never paddled the other, but once somebody compared these two as being similar to each other. Thoughts or is the Ellesmere more like an Avocet - Romany or simply something completely different?
Not even close
I own both these boats and the performance and handling of each is very different.
The Pintail is definitely “loose” but with a touch of skeg it behaves quite well.
The Ellesmere might be called a playful boat but that would be stretching the meaning of the word.
It is very responsive to edging,or in other words it carves crisp turns.
To sum it up :the Pintail spins turns but the Ellesmere carves turns.
The Ellesmere has kind of an indexed feeling to the secondary stability but the Pintail has a “mushy” feeling when leaned over.
Bert
nordkapp
There were basically 3 models of the old style (pre-Jubilee) nordkapp.
the HM with the integrated skeg (some love this boat, some hate it, very few in between)
the HS with a rope skeg and later a cable skeg
the third was a low volume nordkapp I have only heard about but never seen (reported to have never been imported to the states.)
In I believe 1998 the Nordkapp Jubilee was introduced, the hull came in two styles, the HM and the HS. This boat was still designed to carry a load when paddled but does paddle very well as a day boat for the general public.
2 years ago the H20 was introduced (hatches two Oval) (play on words) as far as I know it is only availiable in the HS version
This years catalogue shows now 2 more versions of the Nordkapp, the plastic one and the LV one as far as I know they also are only availiable in the HS model
The changes to the nordkapp are no different than the evolution of lots of other boats on the markett.
The Jubilee was designed by adding materal to an existing old model nordapp in order to enhance it’s character. some was added behind the seat , to allow it to surf better. the nose was changed slightly, 2 inches of rocker was added to just the stern and the deck was raised about an inch.oh and its about 1/4 inch wider.
From the Jubilee came the H2O. they took about and inch (I believe) of the rocker back out , lowered the deck slightly and changed the nose again, ever so slightly and of course made the front hatch a large oval.
I believe that along with the pintail, the old model will be availiable on a once a year special order,(ocean cockpit only) but as far as I can tell the Jubilee is gone.
maybe someone else knows much more, and will speak, or if any of the things I stated are different than they know them to be I would hope they would correct me. My writtings come from conversation I had with Stan and with Robin a few years ago . I think I remembered it correctly
Skerray?
I know it is much bigger in volume then these other boats being described, but is it at heart an oversized Pintail? Just curious.
Very much so
We paddled Skerray RM’s (not the keyhole cockpit RMX) in Shetland and they were excellent boats, a bit more stable than a Pintail and quite maneuverable. One of the people with us owns an Avocet RM and started out with one in Shetland, then switched to the Skerray because he liked it better. The difference in volume isn’t as much as you might think and I think it’s reasonable to consider the Skerray RM to be a “plastic Pintail”. Although the RM is not listed in the current VSK catalog, my understanding is that they will make them on special order.
RMX
Outside of a keyhole or ocean cockpit, is that the only difference between those two hulls?
Romany through the water
The bow wake a Romany throws is huge! Much bigger than an Avocet. Though the Romany bow is ‘finer’ than the Avocet’s, it rides much higher and is looser.
How a boat moves through the water is significant. The Avocet is much ‘smoother’ through the water. The Romany hull seems to produce more turbulance.
The hull profile (crossection) and rocker account for the sluggishness as well as the responsiveness of the Romany.
As far as the chines, NDK refers to it as ‘modified hard chine.’ The designer of the Chatham refers to it as ‘soft edge hard chine.’
…
I strongly suspect that X in RMX means cross-linked, as in roto-molded cross-linked polyethylene.