The Force 3 is not that big
Just what about the Force seemed big? While it is about 17’ long, it is in other respects rather small. It does require a decent lean to turn it fast I grant you.
Rumor is not that small?
You will likely find the Rumor to be bigger in the Cockpit that the Force 3. In particular it is deep and you will likely hit your elbows and rolling might present problems. Try it fully. If you are up to it, it is an exciting ride. At least my wife says so. She’s 5’ 1" and is 110#. She loves the Force 3 which she found much easier to deal with that an Avocet. She is still dealing with getting the Rumor outfitted for a comfortable fit and adequate thigh bracing. Not easy. She says its a wild ride…apparently a little like the Anas Acuata is for larger paddlers.
Force 3
By the way the force 3 handled for me, I was afraid it would be too much for some of the rivers here in Florida that I would like to explore.
Avocet
If you like it, buy it. This is a great boat, as are all the rest listed above. As you mentioned, it is very well-mannered in wind and seas. I’ve done week out of mine, carrying all my water, so don’t worry too much about volume unless you want to bring along the Coleman 2-burner, etc. Don’t get too caught up about speed either. It’s just fine. Under most circumstances, you will paddle most efficiently in the boat you feel most comfortable in. If you want to go faster get a Rapier or surf ski.
Mike
$2000 budget
it’s really a shame to have to compromise kayak weight for price when you are such a light person. The Avocet weighs about half your body weight.
Have you checked out QCC 10X?
It would require custom outfitting as well.
Another kayak worth checking out is the Current Designs Suka. It has a lot closer thigh bracing than the Rumor or other smaller kayaks.
I wonder if Eric Schade at Shearwater Boats has a narrow version of the Merganser 16 that you would be interested in building or enticing a friend to build.
Suka
Oh my . . .
The Shearwater Boats seem to have something for just my size. Too funny it is a project I would love to tackle!! Spent many a day of my childhood caring for a twin set of Mahogany boats.
Does the Suka really have closer thigh braces? I have not been able to find a dealer in Florida that carries one. I actually like the specs of that better than the Rumour
I will look into the QCC. I am not familiar with them at all.
I suppose you can all get a chuckle out of this . . . .
As I am in the process of a divorce, I am sitting in a house that has only folding tables and chairs for furniture. Camping Mats for a bed. You can all see where my priorities are as I have chosen spending on a kayak instead of oh say . . . a bed?
Trying to keep it under that $2000 mark and trying to find a boat I like is to say the least . . . frustrating.
Kayak is cheaper therapy
MUCH… the watertime will be worth it.
Do it for you.
And take heart… you live in Florida there will be lots more kayaks on the market soon… don’t forget to use craigslist.com.
Come to think of it, many dealers down there will already have their 2007 boats in… the last thing they want are 2006 or even 2005s hanging around. Try some offers at 30%-40%off list, you might be surprised, esp. if you buy some accessories…
Make the rounds of all the paddleshops you can find, make a friend or two in each shop.
second that, FF
I got a quote from KAS about a year ago, from FL. to MI and this was the ballpark quote. Of course, it’s schedule dependent but they have a great reputation.
And if you’re irish it’s a no brainer 
your priorities are fine
A good kayak will always make you smile, and never let you down.
i’m 5’5" and 130-135#
and happily paddle an avocet that has been customized for me- the seat has been built up and the foot pegs were removed and foam was placed in front of the bulkheads…
i don’t have a roll, and won’t anytome soon due to an injury, but if i was going to work on one, i would need to make the fit a bit snugger through the hips (i’m a size 6)
as it is now, i still have good control of the boat and am still able to stretch and maintain contact with the boat and have better rotation for my forward stroke…
in my personal experience here in the bay area, i have never met an unhappy avocet owner- unless they “outgrew” their boat:) it’s a boat that allows newer paddlers to paddle with greater confidence when the water gets a bit bumpy, and for some reason, most seem to hang on to their avocets, even when they start paddling SOF’s, or skis:)
and no matter what you decide, you will undoubtedly need to do some outfitting of the cockpit in order to feel comfortable and geta good fit. i think you should antici;ate that with any boat. my legs go numb in every boat without changing the seat angle:(
pam in santa cruz
i bought myself a ski
for under $2000 when i got divorced two years ago. it’s money well spent:)
CD Oracle
Has anyone my size tried an Oracle?
It is closer to my budget, and the specs look decent.
Turning issues with 3 - and Rumour demo
Some kayaks just take a little while to get the feel of, and then are far more responsive than they seem at first. If the Cat 3 really fits you that well - this process would be quick indeed. Once adapted, the length has other benefits in many situations.
Again, it the Cat three really fit that well go give it another (longer - actually paddling some distance) demo.
I don’t fit a 3, and 4 seems big (deep and wide, not long), and turns more easily than I need/like! I wouldn’t have expect a 3 to be too tracky.
RE: Rumour on this side. Worth the drive to demo if none over on Gulf side. Very different sort of kayak from all I’ve seen.
If you’re talking Kayak Jeff in Dania as I suspect, give him a call. Super guy. Nice shop, small but well stocked and quality focused selection. Pretty amazing variety last time I was in.
He also had an Impex Mystic (on consignment I think - and may be sold ??).
If I were to surprise my 5’2" girlfriend with anything from Jeff’s shop it would be that Rumour (she’d kill me and kayak budget is zero - so we won’t be buying it out from under you. Would love to get her to demo it though).
I suspect you’re going to come down to one of these, or making some bigger compromises and getting well acquainted with minicell foam.
Modified Merganser is possible
– Last Updated: Feb-26-07 11:00 PM EST –
I built one in stock form (the 16' x 21" Merganser) a few years ago. I had talked with Eric Schade about a downsized version. He was willing to do it for a small fee but he was talking about *proportionately* downsizing. All I wanted was a lower deck and maybe slightly narrower, with the same length. He said he could do that, too; it would cost more.
If you choose this route, you WILL need a different thigh brace set-up. The stock tabs where you glue foam for thigh braces were way too far forward for me. I could still roll it but the contact was less secure than in a kayak with better-placed thigh braces. I ended up buying somebody's homemade molded fiberglass pieces he never used and adding those in my boat, plus some padding there. It is now a better fit.
The Merganser tracks very strongly and is less easy to maneuver than either the Avocet or the Tempest 165. BTW, I found the Tempest faster than the Avocet, and slightly less easy to maneuver (but still easy). It is easy to roll. It sounds like you need to try both of them with more padding installed, plus check out some other kayaks.
spending on a kayak instead of oh say .
Sounds like solid thinking to me
Other boat options than 'vocet.
– Last Updated: Feb-27-07 5:38 AM EST –
http://www.brighton-canoes.co.uk/productpages/prijon/catalina.htm
I think you might be on the right track, LES7500, to look for another boat. I own an Avocet, and I and 5 foot 8.565 inches and 160-165 lbs and it fits me, I think perfectly, without any outfitting (but replacing the Valley backband). So, at your small frame size, I agree with you, it might be a tad big (although minicellable).
The Prijon Catalina might work for you and is a fast boat. www.wildnet.com, and is blow molded HTP (heavy duty) yet weighs only 49 lbs.
I have not demoed any of my boats before buying as locally there is no place to do so, but I will say that demoing would be super important at your height and weight. I have found, and I would wager most agree, that as I become a more skilled paddler, I tend toward tighter and if possible lighter boat. With your price max at $2k, you would have a plethora of options, some suggested in posts above, but I feel your pain as it seems you have done your homework and sat in some boats and still are struggling with teh choice. I truly think you need to see a reputable boat dealer (you have no profile with location, but Pnetters would know where to go for demos in your area) and make a day out of demoing. You have done some, please do more as buying the wrong boat will only cost you dollars and misery.
http://www.rutabaga.com/product.asp?pid=1010436
I'll keep trying to think on other ideas. That P&H Vela sure sounds like a winner, if you could get in one and then have them knowck $600 off the price. :-)
I wonder if spending the money for a Vela, once you try it out, even if it stretches the credit card a tad, would be money better spent than buying an $1800 kayak, not loving it, and selling it for $1100 used in a couple years (and then likely going back and buying a Vela or something for what will then cost $2800).
Here's a past list of good thoughts.
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=88460
The P and H Vela has outstanding reviews on Pnet, from many that seem to be about your size. you could check theri profiles, and contact one that lives near you from email link on Pnet and ask to try it out (eg sharonmb in MI) depending on where you live.
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=532
About the Force 3
– Last Updated: Feb-27-07 11:23 AM EST –
The boat has fine secondary stability, or at least that's what I call it. Really no less than the Avocet, but I agree that it approaches it like less of a wall than it feels like in the Avocet for a lighter paddler. (I think it might take padding down towards the front is all. I altered this part - see the below exchange. I may be all wet not on purpose.)
It has to feel good for you in the end - but if you really liked the boat except it felt a little bit much for you right now, maybe rethink that. You'll find that you acclimate to that little bit of comfort gap within weeks of having a boat.
same here
the stock thigh braces are too far forward in the 17 and 18.
give Eric a call
– Last Updated: Feb-27-07 9:28 AM EST –
at least you'll find out if he has the design sitting around or what the fee is. It'll end up being at least a $1000 cost and three month construction. If you get just the plywood panels and just the epoxy/glass from lowest cost sources the total price can be kept down,,er,,,except for the tools, sander, etc.
The reason I am suggesting looking for the lightest boat possible is an observation watching a friends wife who is exactly your size. Amongst the 60lb kayaks we had she just couldn't accelerate the kayak up to a cruising speed. I sold them a 13' Pygmy Golden Eye and she had absolutely no problem keeping up. Yes it's 22" wide but I don't think a wide boat (for you) is that much of a liability if the deck is low or your seat has some height.
If you're new to all this then like most folks you're likely to be seduced by a good fitting cockpit, which IS necessary, but it's usually possible to retrofit a cockpit to fit, you can't make 60lbs of plastic lighter.
My $.02 would be to find the lightest boat possible. A Pygmy Osprey13 could be made to weigh under 30lbs using lighter glass.
Oh, yeah, the Suka looks snug. Thigh braces are about much closer than on the rumor.
Small boats - small people
The Cat 3 should require very little tweaking for you. At 5’1" and 110 lbs, I’ve done nothing except enjoy it in many different conditions. It is as versatile a boat as you will find in that it does a lot of things very, very well. The Rumour, while narrower and shorter, has a larger cockpit that, for me, has required a lot of tweaking. It has a very high deck for such a small boat. E-mail me privately for more description on that issue if you pursue a Rumour. It is quite a different boat than the Cat 3. I have found that in demo-ing boats, you can only get a feel for how they move in flat and easy circumstances. However it takes some time paddling to discover what they’re really like in bumpier conditions to find out if the boat matches what you want/expect from your ride. Also, Valley expects to have an Avocet LV coming out, hopefully this year, which will be a small paddler’s boat.