Yup
"Overall scouts is very educational for both kids and leaders and I am sort of living a childhood that I never had since I wasn’t in scouts but did want to be."
Same here for me. When I was a teen, I didn’t really have any interest in camping and hiking, I was all about sailing, so I did sea scouts, not boy scouts. Then when I started dating my now wife and her then 5 year old son, I thought it would be fun to take them camping (car camping). Learned quite a lot from our mistakes in those first few campouts. Then my stepson and I did cubscouts together (with me as den leader) as a way for us to bond, and now we’re into boyscouts, so we’re not just doing car camping anymore. We’re backpacking in Hill Country State Natural Area this coming weekend. I have come to love backpacking, car camping is so boring by comparison. It’s something I probably would have never gotten into if it had not been for doing boy scouts with my stepson. I’ve really enjoyed learning the skills alongside him, it really makes me feel like I am making up for not having done boyscouts as a kid.
bears
Read some of the bear websites on the internet that will help you understand the animal for starters.
Poisoning a bear because it is doing a bear trait would be like shooting a human for doing something human.
Best to avoid the situation as best you can by eliminating “the reasons” why the bear was there.
They are all unpredicable…just like you would have 100 different possilbe reactions for a human etc.
Bears are looking for FOOD or protecting their young.
Black bears are the most common food scavengers…if you are in an area where there has always been food such as camps where people leave/drop food around or create a messy smelly camp…well then you will most likely have bears…just like you would also have Ravens, mice, ants, and raccoons too. They are all in it for the food. i.e SURVIVAL.
So have a clean camp and dont camp where a bunch of inconsiderate other people have camped and left food/smells etc. Properly store your food away, clean dishes, cook AWAY from tents/campers etc if possible, Dont cook in the same cloths your going to wear to bed etc etc.
In my area its one of the largest grizzley concentrations in the country…so we have to take precautions for them as well as black bears. There is NOT a big problems and for the most part we generally dont “worry” about it BUT do take the proper precaustions each time as stated above. We also HANG our food if we are backpacking or paddling in Grizz country. We hang EVERYTHING that is ASSOCIATED WITH FOOD AND SMELLS…such as toothpaste and tooth brush, spaltulas, and cooking pots/utnesils, pot holders, cooking oils, spices, deoderant, sun screen, chap stick/balm, scented diapers/and poweders etc (if you have kids) even the cook stove! WHEN DISCARDING ANY FOOD TYPE OR SMELL THINGS>>>> YOU ALSO WANT TO dump IN THE FIRE PIT if you have one. CHARCOAL IS A SMELL ELIMINATOR!!! SO…DONT SPIT OUT YOUR TOOTH PASTE OR DRAIN YOUR PASTA NOODLES OR COFFEE Grounds ON THE GROUND WHERE THE NEXT family will be putting their tents the following week after YOU left. BE CONSIDERATE OF other people and STOP TRAINING the bears as to where the food is by doing this. If you dont have a fire, try to bury above mentioned items instead of just on the ground etc. Just imagine for a moment if you NEVER SWEPT OR MOPPED YOUR KITCHEN FLOOR FOR ONE YEAR…Imagine this! How much food scraps, crumbs, smells, will accumulate on the floor? I bet it would be a lot!! Its the same with your camp location. Some of those campgrounds have people everynight for the whole summer.
Another precaution is encountering bears with cubs. A no-no! The mothers are protective of their young. SO DONT SUPRISE THEM either…talk and make noise when traveling through the woods as not to startle them etc. In my area we also carry bear-spray (mace) which WORKS!!! There has never been anyone in my area that was killed that had the spray and were attacked, and i think thats true for the rest of those who have used it. The number of bear attacks/maulings/deaths etc is much lower than getting hit by lighting, drownings, bee sting deaths etc.
Bears Can Learn From The Campers
That proceded you. A bear can trash a tent because it has learned that tents might have food in them. Even clean tents can be at risk. The problem with scouts is that they travel in large groups. That limits them. Kids frequenting any area will have an impact. That’s because they’re kids. Promoting large get-togethers is bad environmental stewardship. Scout camps are better off if they are developed sites without the food storage and human waste problems. Many forests are limiting the number of heartbeats per camp. That means your dogs and horses count as people. The problem scouts have is that the organizational structure makes it almost impossible to practice sound environmental practices out in nature. In other words don’t blame the bears blame the scouts.
yeah that too
exactly…condition response. Same with Wildlife biologist who are always sticking their hands inside the bears mouth that are tranquilized have the taste of human inside the mouth… Bear: “”'hmmm food?!"
NO Don’t blame the scouts
Blame the leaders for not training them well or not being trained themselves (or just plain stupid). Our troop never had a problem with bears in the 20 years I was associated with them. I recall numerous instances where neighboring troop sites got ravaged. One in particular had a food tent central to the site, with fresh fish no less! A bear hit it the second nite and came back every day for the week. Tore the place apart.
We strictly enforced no food in tents and a clean camp site.
Personal Responsibility
Keeping a clean camping area, by keeping food out of reach & other things w/a fragrance, is done by hanging the items in covered cannisters or using bear cannisters. That may help you, but if previous campers kept food out and attracted bears, the bears will have already developed the habit/sense that food is available there.
In WA state one year, they simply closed a camping area due to bears showing up, due to CAMPERS!!! You can’t kill all the bears or relocate them all due to PEOPLE misusing the campgrounds.
The forest is where the bears live. You can’t take them out of their home or kill them so people can camp. Campers need to take personal responsibility.
Raccoons are an issue here too. They WILL make a hole in your tent to get at food left inside, which should not be there.
-Capri
.
I have many questions here:
-First, why are guns not an option in a scout camp? Someone needs to reverse the direction this country’s thinking is going. Guns are a fact of civilization, and they’re not going away. Why would the scouts not be teaching all scouts…girls and boys, basic gun safety. And that guns are not to be handled unless with an adult? I grew up where guns were in the home, just about every closet had a rifle or shotgun leaning in the corner. They probably were loaded too, but I’m not sure. I was that they were dangerous and to be left alone unless I was with dad. Guns and the outdoors go hand in hand. Scouts, outdoors, and guns should be meshed together. A gun is a safety item, not an items kids should fear or taught to pretend doesn’t exist. The more people hide from guns, and try to extinguish them from their thinking, the more firearms accidents happen in this country. Thats a provable fact.
-What to do with bears that no longer act as bears? Teach them thats camping scouts do have guns. teach them (again) that people are dangerous to be around. teach them to be afraid. The more these granola do-gooders venture into the outdoors, and allow bears to push them around or drive them to camp the worse off EVERYONE is and will be. You and the scouts are not at fault here, so please dont take my words that way. You’re a victim of others who have taught bears that we fear them, that we’re a food source, that they can push us around with no negative impact. This “modern bear” attitude has also grown and spread as people hide from guns rather that be armed. When I was a kid, we had plenty of bears around without issue. If a bear ever came into camp, my dad or an other adult would have killed it without even thinking twice. So, a lot needs to change but there does need to be a gun in camp, and people need to kill these bears who have learned the wrong lessons. Let me also be clear that the bear isn’t at fault. It’s a tragedy that they will need to die simply for being smart, and adapting. Sadly, the same do-gooder granolas that wont hurt a fly are the ones directly responsible for bears who need to be killed because nature boy and nature girl has food hanging in a bag but wont defend it. Again, around here…bears that get bossy with people get shot. Bears that get seen crossing a road get a pack of hounds dropped onto them. Most bears stay away from camps, human scent, and vehicles. That’s when they’re truly beautiful and wild.
Ummmm
Scout camps have a gun/shooting program. You just can't have them in your camp site, just like the military keeps all the guns in an armory rather than in the barracks. Saves on a lot of unnecessary trips to the emergency room.
When possible the DNR will capture a problem bear and move it. If all else fails they will kill it. This happened at the scout camp we go to a few times.
When you're out on your own, feel free to carry all the fire power you need.
funny no one has mentioned
bear bangers.
I wouldn’t think they are against Scout policy.
http://www.gear-up.com/cart_showproduct.php?pid=10253
Sorry
You guessed wrong - fireworks…
I think the issue is
more about lessening human impact than self-defense. If people practice clean camping, minimize impact, and take all necessary precautions, there should be no need for “defense” via firearms or other overt deterrent measures. Especially with black bears and in the lower-48. AK is a slightly different story, but bear spray DOES work.
Don’t Feed The Bears!!!
I’ve been camping in WA state, in bear country, for 13 years. It really is all about cleanliness in the campground.
Bears have food in the forest, so if you don’t tempt them with another source, they tend to get their food from the backcountry as they always have with no problems.
I’ve had great bear encounters. One with two bears grazing along a mountainside I was facing in the Olympic Mountains in WA state, and it was incredible to watch them. It was in the middle of a 3 day roundtrip backpacking trip, where I think hiker/campers who really care about the enviornment tend to hike in that far & do the right thing.
My second encounter was walking along a trail where bear tend to be spotted as it was fall and they are out eating the ripe blueberries. The bear was fairly close below me, on the mountainside, very involved in eating what NATURE provided. I watched, took video and moved along on my hike. This trail was surrounding Mt. Rainier.
-Capri
scary to think about
my fear is being skunked
Hmmmm…
“If people practice clean camping, minimize impact, and take all necessary precautions, there should be no need for “defense” via firearms or other overt deterrent measures.”
“Should,” as in “life is always fair?” Sounds like famous last words to me. Your last name isn’t Treadwell is it?
Misperception?
Some of you seem to think that black bears are no threat to humans. Black bears account for the majority of bear attacks, human deaths due to bear attack, and human use of deadly force against wildlife threats, even in Canada, where griz and polar bears have ample opportunity to affect the statistics. Yes, if people kept cleaner camps and if bears weren’t already habituated, there would be fewer deadly situations, and it’s not fair when an animal dies due to something it’s learned from people. All good points to put on your tombstone. You do not know what a bear is going to do in any particular situation, and there are ample statistics to show that deadly attacks are more common than the PETA crowd realizes.
I guess I should tremble
before I go outside. There might be bears around. No make that there ARE bears around. So far the kids at the bus stop have not made a good breakfast for bruin.
Time for a story.
Back in 2000 or 2001, I was guiding south of Yellowstone. We took a couple out for a pack in camp near Two Oceans Pass. Since I'm an early riser, I got up each morning to start a fire and make coffee. Of course, mother nature's call was the 1st order of business, so I went off by flashlight one morning down the timberline and found a suitable place to do what needed to be done. We had two border collies with us, and I heard them raising cane back at camp and the horses were jumping around quite a bit. I finished my deed and went back to quiet the animals before they woke the clients. Well, as soon as I got back to camp, my partner let the dogs out of the wall tent and they headed straight into the timber. As I was looking down the timberline, out comes this griz right from where I had been not 3 minutes earlier. He went to the middle of the park, spun around towards where the dogs were and shook his head like I've never seen an animal shake. Then, he spun around and headed across the park to the next timberline and disapeared. As if that wasn't enough, the next two nights we were visited by a bear who grunted around the tents. We kept the dogs in, and when the bear got sniffing right next to the wall tent at the foot of my cot, my partner fired a shot in the air through the tent door. The bear left and didn't come back the rest of the week. The first shell was buckshot, meant to be a noisy warning or a stinging one, with deer slugs to follow in case the warning was not heeded. For the rest of my years packing, I never went to answer nature's call without my shotgun.
Yeah, I am armed in bear country and I'm armed at rest areas along the highway. I've camped in the mountains of southern Arizona where smuggling and illegal fugitives makes it the smart thing. I carry a pistol in everyday life, so it only makes good sense to go armed in remote places. In fact, I can't really think of a place I wouldn't prefer to be armed. I figure it's better to have a weapon and never need it than to need it and not have it. It is true that in most eastern parks, the human threat is greater than any threat posed by bears, but bears do kill and maime people. You just have to decide whether you're going to be a survivor or a victim.
I am going to be a survivor
with bear spray and bangers. I dont carry and figure that when they leave me in camp with the shotgun against griz its a bad thing.. I will shoot myself.
Its your right to arm yourself and do as you see fit. Liked the story.
So far I have gotten away for seven decades with no gun and most of the summers are in bear country except the last ten years when all is in bear country. We do get a break in the winter. Not talking griz though. Nor polar.
Only takes once.
I survived most of my life without ever wearing a seat belt. Is not wearing one the smart thing? Nope.
most black bears wont chew your face off
I just wrote a blog post on this topic for a couple of my scaredy cat canoe camping friends. It’s based on information from the North American Bear Center in Minnesota. It seems black bears in the United States are generally timid but maybe not so true for black bears in Canada and Alaska. Watch the video.
http://www.moshannonfalls.com/black-bears-in-the-camp-how-to-deal-with-the-fear-and-reality/