true…
I am just a pretty OCD kind of a guy. I do paddle a lot…every day…sometimes twice a day. Well into the hours of darkness now in the evenings, and year round.
Most of my thinking about these subjects happen while paddling. Lots of time to think!
I just am very particular and very passionate about this sport and looking for how to best enjoy it.
Rest assured that I am not an “arm chair paddler” lol… If anything I paddle too much! Plus all of these debates I have about things just result in me paddling more because I have to get out on the water and test new things / experiment etc. There are lots of permutations of the same boat…just changing the seat height, paddle length, paddle type, etc can make a huge difference as you know.
Matt
YS Solo good for kneeling or sitting.
At least it is for me. I installed a Wenonah sliding footbrace in my royalex Wildfire / Yellowstone Solo and sit in it most of the time.
Does the Merllin have a footbrace?
If not, it really won’t be a good comparison for sit & swith vs the Magic.
I was wondering about that…
I got a royalex Wildfire last week. I am normally a sit and switch paddler when in canoes, but thought I’d try a kneeling design. I’ve been out 3 times and don’t know if my one knee will take a dedicated kneeler. I did see a pic in the classified of one with a factory installed footbrace and wondered about installing one. I think we are about the same build…5’6" 145 lbs. I was out for about 2 hours today on a Lake Erie tributary as well as on Lake Erie with it and my knee really got tight. Lake Erie on 11-14 in a canoe! The lake was so flat I could have probably paddled to Canada! I used a yak paddle while out on the lake and got the boat really moving. It was fun paddling into powerboat wakes…
You havent figured out your "style"
yet.
Thats all. They are different boats. Whats better? Who knows?
The Magic would drive me nuts where I like to paddle (twisty old canoe routes). The Merlin II does not drive me nuts. The second spins well in place when heeled…the first makes a lazy u turn. Speed is not my priority though I can cover many miles in a day. If I want speed where I paddle I better learn to run on portages.
The Merlin II just fits what I do better. It works fine with hit and switch. It works fine with (aaaah…a double blade…sssh). It does decent FS moves although with less whip than a shorter symmetrically rockered boat.
Why not keep them both? And the footbrace is a fine idea in any tripping boat. It wont interfere with kneeling.
Some Explanations…
I have to explain myself a bit here…first I am a very particular person and pretty obsessive about my passions in life.
In my extensive search for the right combination of boats for me (I have been through this with kayaks already and been through at least a dozen) I am not merely looking for a boat that will make up for shortcomings as a paddler or to provide some attribute that is just not attainable. Nor is it that I spend more time thinking about boats and gear than actually paddling.
I am just a very, very passionate paddler. I love the sport and am totally obsessed with it. I plan much more time actually on the water than pondering about boats.
I love many aspects of the sport and each boat that I try addresses some different facet better than others.
My search is one to find out which of those facets I like the most and find the boat that offers the best combination of them…but the problem for me is that I like all the facets and you just can’t have them all!
I am also constantly trying to define my desires and true uses.
One thing I do have to say is that it is largely a matter of making choices about style. I like both sit and switch and kneeling. Both are different and offer different aspects that I enjoy.
So I have to figure it out. I like it all but can’t necesarily have it all. But…I have a lot of fun and learn a lot in my search.
I have gotten the Merlin out once. My initial assessment is that the Merlin is not as easy to spin around like the YS solo, but that does not mean it is not maneuverable. It will carve a very nice turn and respond quite well to minor inputs and heeling. I find this is especially true in textured water and wind. It is also a better sit and swith boat I think than the Magic is as a kneeling boat. It offers a better compromise in my opinion. It also just has a nicer feel in the water than its Royalex sister I have in the YS solo simply because of the material.
The Magic definitely excells more as a sit and switch boat and is certainly the better choice for this style of paddling but I believe it is more of a niche boat in this regard than the Merlin.
Will have to do some more paddling to make more thorough observations.
Maybe I should just keep both. I just have too many boats and they “aint cheap” But then maybe I just need to. Right now I have four canoes and two kayaks…and five kayak paddles…and six canoe paddles…and three bikes…and a ton of backpacking gear…and just so many other toys. Maybe that is just the reality of the sport!
We’ll see.
But my own shortcomings in my obsessive compulsive nature I do plan to provide some insightful feedback here on what I learn that may be useful to those others who have tolerated my obsessive search!
It is a great learning experience.
Matt
The perfect boat or toy
One of the things Americans obsess about is the perfect equipment.
There is no such thing. Everything is a trade off.
As you expand your knowledge of paddling however and your skill set widens, however, you come to appreciate that every boat is different. It might be a small way. Storage then becomes the issue!(My problem is I have lots of storage…rule is that if I havent used it in a year it goes out)
There is way more out there than you have paddled…rather than worrying over it… just paddle what seems to fit your style best.
In the long run it really does not matter. Grummans have done well in a variety of places from the tropics to the Arctic Sea.
What does matter is the paddling experience and the pleasure it gives you.
I too spend time on the water…71 paddling overnights this year and another 100 or so day trips.
agreed…
that is what I was essentially trying to say in my long post…I have learned this from kayaks and now from canoes…all boats are trade-offs. You are right that no perfect boat exists…I believe it is a matter of finding a boat or boats that allows you to best cover the niches you seek determined by your paddling style, conditions, location, etc. and that provides you the most enjoyment based on your preferences.
I am still in the discovery mode. As I said I like certain aspects of all the boats I have paddled. Just looking for the one or ones that provide the best balance of traits and trade-offs that is best for me.
I am starting to think more about keeping both though…having a YS solo for applications where I need plastic is great and for super maneuverability (especially now with the wider thwarts I put in), having the Merlin for kneeling and river touring, and then the Magic for sit and switch woudl be a great combination and would not force me to have to choose between sitting and kneeling or have to make serious trade-offs if I want to do both. Despite the fact that all boats can be paddled either way the fact of the matter is that there are big trade-offs in my opinion when using a boat like the Magic as a kneeling boat or a boat like the merlin as a sit and switch. I don’t like big trade-offs as a perfectionist!
Matt
Sure all boats are compromises
But in highly skilled hands, any one of them can do a whole lot more than I’m capable of getting out of it. As has been said many times, it’s the paddler, not the boat.
Wait till you get older
and you find your needs changing.
It’ll happen that you sell something because its not quite what you want at this time…and in twenty years you will be searching for it again!
true and…not…
Agree that it is not the boat but the paddler. But that implies that someone is looking for a boat to compensate for shortcomings in skill. Not necessarily the case.
Also, I don’t care how good of a paddler you are, a Magic is just not as maneuverable as a Wildfire. And no matter how fit you are a Wildfire will never be faster than a Magic. I don’t care who the paddler is.
As a skilled paddler I can get the Magic to turn quite well, but not as well as the Merlin. I paddled the Magic recently on a very narror stream in the Adirondacks that had one 90 degree turn after another in about 14 inches of water and with a fully loaded boat and bent paddle. No problem…but not nearly as much fun or as easy as the Merlin or Wildfire would have been. It is not so much about not being able to get a boat to perform a given task, but rather achieving the maximum level of enjoyment out of the sport by having the mix of attributes you like.
Kind of like cars…on a windy mountain road a Porsche is a lot more fun to drive than a Ford Expedition but both will do the task. On a rocky dirt road both will do the task as well but I would prefer to be in the Expedition. No matter how good of a driver you are you will not get the Expedition to outperform the Porsche in its environment and vice versa.
In my case I am just looking for what I personally prefer. All boats will perform well but there are tradeoffs in design that will be the same tradeoffs for any paddler.
I am not looking for a boat to do something that I can’t make it do, but rather one that I just enjoy more.
I am pretty obsessive about boats, but invariably whenever I bring up these topics no matter how carefully I approach it I am often accused of being an armchair paddler or someone who is just a lousy paddler and looking for a boat to make up for my shortcomings.
I guess those are reasonable assumptions but neither are the case.
Guess maybe I am just out there when it comes to boats but that is part of what I enjoy.
Matt
Trouble understanding this quandary
If you were out paddling around in Friday’s remnants of T.S. Ida, you should be pretty happy with whatever boat you were in. Even in the lee, that must have been an interesting evening.
Since I know you’d be happy paddling even if you only had a log for a boat, this quandary between high-end canoes must be be pleasant agony.
Good luck with it, I’ll follow along with interest.
~~Chip
yup
It's an interesting challenge to try to find a boat or boats that suit you best. I've had the pleasure of paddling a lot of solos over the years. Like you said, all had their strengths, but some of them were more suited to my preferred paddling style than others.
I'm currently back to the first solo I ever bought, the Swift Osprey. I love how easy it is to paddle and how it seems to know where I want to go almost as soon as I do.
The Magic was as perfectly suited to my preferred type of paddling (long days and long distances) as anything I've ever owned. I wish I hadn't had to sell mine, and that I'd had the foresight to replace it before the Bell company changed hands and material costs skyrocketed. The Wilderness, which is my second boat, is a very pleasant and competent paddling boat that I should be able to use for as long as I can get out on the water, but I've never been able to muster the same enthusiasm for paddling it that I had for getting out in the Magic.
It has been fun watching you try out different boats and narrow down what you want out of a canoe. I hope you are enjoying the process as much as I am watching you go through it.
Sure we’re lovin’ it!
Its his money…not our’n. We ran out of that long ago the same way.
Yes…it is fun…
That is the other thing. I admit I am a bit crazy when it comes to boats…openly admited that up front. I have been through the same thing with kayaks too.
However…it is fun! And I learn a lot from it. It teaches me a lot about what i want as a paddler, teaches me about me as a paddler, and provides me a very valuable understanding of the nuances of boat design and its impact on performance which I find fascinating. I find the design of boats very intersting and being able to see how it effects their handling on the water, and then doing all the thinking and analysis as to why is just very interesting to me. Not only am I pretty OCD about things, I am pretty analytical too. I just enjoy it.
And on the Swift Osprety…YEAH…I loved that boat. It was my first solo too and I sold it. That sale I regret. Great, great boat.
If I had the Osprey still it would fill the nich of both the Merlin and the YS solo in my opinion. Almost as fast as the Merlin (really very close), handles as well if not better than the YS solo, and is more seaworthy than either…and has very impressive acceleration.
If I could find one in expedition kevlar I might get it and use it for both flat and mild white water although still some reservations over the kevlar vs. royalex for rocky Class II/II+
Matt
Don’t worry Matt. You are not alone.
Plenty of us have gone through a few boats in the quest for the one that makes us grin the most.
Talking solo touring canoes only I currently have my Osprey, Magic, Voyager, and Independence. I used to own a Clipper Sea 1 and a CD Solstice C1 conversion. I've demoed the Flashfire, Wildfire, Starfire, Guide, Argosey, Perigrine, Kestrel, SRT a couple of strippers I can't remember the names of and Turtles way cool ultralight whose name again I can't recall. And Whoops I forgot the J200!
Hmmm, maybe you got some catching up to do?
I never suggested a lack of skill
… on your part Matt. I guess we all go through the different stages. I’ve certainly been in the “boat quest” stage. But lately I’m in the “it’s mostly the paddler” stage. I’ll probably be back in the boat quest stage again in a few months. If so, I’ll surely be reading with interest your write ups on your experimentations.
Intentions
Merlin II was conceived as another in DY's long line of solo trippers; 1 Curtis solo tripper, 2 Curtis vagabond/Hemlock kestrel, 3 Sawyer autumn mist, 4 Curtis nomad/Hemlock peregrine, 5 Swift loon, 6 Swift heron.
With mild Swede form hull, differential rocker and shear, it was the most sophisticated of the line, and, when made in B/G laminate with wood trim, the best. That said, it is still a generalist's boat; pretty happy responding to a kneeling paddler with a single blade or a sitter with a bent when foot pegs are attached.
We felt that those more dedicated to sit and switch would trade up to the delta shaped, differentially rockered, Magic, which has a lineage of it's own: Sawyer's DY Special, SummerSong, ShockWave and the Texas Water Safari 17 stripper.
We felt those more interested in finite control on moving water would gravitate to WildFire/ FlashFire, which came out of Curtis ladybug and dragonfly. [The YS Solo, slightly Swede form and differentially rockered, is as much a pudgy Merlin II as a de-tuned descendant of WildFire.]
So, if you want a general purpose boat you've got it in Merlin II. If you want a high performance and maneuverable delta canoe for the BWCA, you've got it in Magic! If you want a high performance hull emphasizing maneuverability for the Pine Barrens, the YS Solo is compromised by that skegged tail.
yep…
I think I am coming to the same conclusion as CEW has stated above…the Merlin seems to be a fairly descent boat for both kneeling and sit and switch and therefore is pretty versatile. I paddled it again this morning for a good bit sit and switch and it did do fairly well. Not as well as the Magic in this regard but pretty respectable with good speed and pretty good tracking.
Not as maneuverable as a YS solo kneeling but acceptably so to carve good turn when moving.
Magic gets the nod for sitting but to me is really only good at sitting.
YS solo gets nod for maneuverability and to me is only good for kneeling.
I am starting to lean toward the Merlin a bit since it gives me the option to have a boat to paddle acceptably well with either style, and I like both.
Interestingly enough on CEW’s comments above, I actually happen to be going to the Pine Barrens this weekend and am taking…the YS solo. Perfect boat for that (especially with the longer thwarts I put it it which now make it super maneuverable).
Matt
happy log hopping
the water was high at Halloween and with the recent rains you will have to climb over logs that you normally can duck under.
Sitting seemed to be more practical for jumping out of the boat than kneeling…