Bent shaft paddle angle

Absolutely
I have a Sawyer Autumn Mist that I drive seated with a ZRE Power Surge 12deg Outrigger 9.25" wide blade. I use this boat and blade on rivers, lakes, loaded tripping, just about everything. At 9.25" wide needless to say this is not a high cadence paddle suitable for racing. It’s just a good solid size to drive the boat efficiently. The Power Surge has a much more stable feel in the water and is deadly silent on entry and exit.

I have paddled a regular ZRE and it was OK. I absolutely hated the Black Bart compared to the Power Surge.

Well, now ya see, I’m all confused…
with my geometry.



I’ve got a Mitchell Leader. Because of its double-bend (doubly bent?) shaft, I find I’ve gravitated towards its deployment over my older Camp 14-degree bend paddle, because it reduces forward thrust of the grip-hand by nearling halving the 14-degree blade bend. Allright, maybe not back to 7-degrees, but let’s say in the realm of 10-degrees.



Anyway, that seems to have helped me in shortening up my stroke’s continuance past the extended hip plane when try’n to carry a smooth yet rapid candence sit-n-switchin’ (“Dammit, Moby, stop whimperin!” OK, sit-n-bitch’n) in my Voyager.



But, I’m far-far-far from polished with it, especialy when those quarterin’ zephyrs take to turnin’ the Voyager into Moby’s ally in cross-purposed peaceful direction. Then, the mini-J’s and C’s I attempt (eschewin’ on those bow rudders and draws and pries due to their motivation-killin’ outcome) have some, though little assistance in apply’n correction (that wide Leader blade go’n “thwump” to Moby’s cranium - “Oops. Fatigue lowered my switch crossover, good buddy.” - assists in whimper-reduction) to the non-compliant Voyagers chase to the wind. Add in the angled paddle blade, and it’s as though I’m doin’ my alphabet of C’s and J’s with a Bizzy-Buzz-Buzz!



That’s the time when I wish I had somethin’ straighter, er, in execution, if not paddle. But, a brief stint of the Leader to the rear, as in rudder, and I’m back to hit-or-miss switchin.



Yesterday I began my experiments, per the Moose of Duluths sagely suggestions, with a beavertail. Now, all I’ve got to do is get a beavertail paddle sized for me. Not the 50" refurb’d cherry model that Mike awarded my daughter last year.



Tell ya Jim, now that Topher set me up with the double-bend, I seldom have desire to go to the single bend. But a 7-degree does sound worth a try, especially on a moderately watered and moving creek, when I’ve put down the pole in a heavier glass or Royalex behemoth, and have commenced to just perambulate at moderate pace down a flat pool or slow bend.



Ain’t it nice when experiments in constituent part trial-n-error can be fun,

Tom

Tom, I think I tried your double-bend
Leader at R*******.



Or did I? Memory not so good.



This exercise in theory has it’s roots in my paddling style: When noodling about near shore, or getting from point A to point B in no hurry I usually use a straight shaft BB paddle. C’s and J’s. I switch to the bendie when I wish to make time. I may have to pick up a 7 deg this winter just for giggles… With the economy being what it is, buying paddles is more prudent than buying boats, Doncha Know!



Jim


12, 14, 25

– Last Updated: Nov-24-08 6:10 PM EST –

First to answer the original question:
I use both a 12* bent (Zaveral) and a 14* bent (Camp). If you spend a long day on the water, you will notice a bit of a difference in where you feel the muscles tiring. If I am going to be doing almost exclusively bent shaft paddling for several hours, I will take both of the paddles so that I can shift the load on the muscles a bit from time to time. I also always carry a straight shaft for the same reason, and because I prefer one for some types of paddling.

Now to debunk some myths:
Myth #1 - You have to paddle at a high cadence with a bent shaft.
The truth: There is no law that says you have to paddle at a high cadence. I paddle at a moderate cadence unless I need to get somewhere in a hurry.

Myth #2 - You can't use a bent shaft when you are kneeling.
Truth: The bent shaft works just fine when you are kneeling, or at least it has worked just fine for plenty of miles with me on the motor end of the paddle. The best torso position for bent shaft paddling is torso leaned slightly forward. That does a better job of bringing the torso muscles into play than does sitting up straight. If you kneel, just lean the torso slightly forward the same as you would do if you were seated. You may have to adjust your stroke placement a little bit, but just don't carry the stroke too far back and you will be fine.

Myth #3: You can't do control strokes with a bent shaft.
Truth: Like tommyc1 said, you can do almost everything with a bent that you can with a straight. Yes, you have to make some adjustments from what you would do with a straight paddle, and yes, there are times when I prefer a straight shaft, but saying "you can't do that with a bent" is more an indication of individual paddler preference than the truth, although I realize the two are often confused.

I’m sure you’ve tried my Lutra…

– Last Updated: Nov-24-08 6:19 PM EST –

that TonyF sold me......it's 5 degree....I am currently looking for a paddle to replace this so's I can put the Lutra away...sorta like I've done with my Autumn Mist....I just don't want to use 'em as everyday paddle and boat. I've got a 12 degree whiskey Jack and a couple 14 BB's.. That Lutra moves my Mist, Magic, and Prism real good...last few times, I've tried my Nashwaak(?)but kneeling is hard for me and I ain't liking it...gonna make it a wall hanging probably...

Myths
1.True is a myth… My Mitchell Leader is too large for a fast pace…thats fine. My Zav 14 degree bend has a much smaller blade. Meant for fast pace. I dont do fast. Works OK for rec pace



2.Can kneel with bent…above remarks are right on.



3. Sometimes a myth and sometimes true. Draws and pries are less effective with bent unless you really can get that top arm out to catch the water with a vertical blade and to leave water without lifting. Thats why bents arent so good for most on the river.



Slicing strokes are a problem with some concave power faces…the slice is not true and tends to wander. My husband and I do tandem FreeStyle with Mitchell Leaders and there are a few things you have to do inverted (jams) but they are possible. And many initiations are done with a J. We are kneeling BTW.

No, I have not Rick!
Bring it to Pymo this spring and I will be happy to give it a whirl.



Jim

That slalom and downriver kneelers
don’t use bent shafts suggests that either bent shafts don’t come close to straight shafts for control strokes, or that bent shafts do not confer a speed advantage to people paddling in a low kneel.



Or both. It might suggest both.



It always surprises me to see my downriver c-1 acquaintances hammering down, and up, the local rapids with paddles that are virtually straight. But there it is.



And while I really like the 5+ degree bent shaft I made for myself, there is no way I could race slalom with it. There are a few kinds of control strokes it cannot manage well enough.



Incidentally, you will see some slalom c-1 paddlers using CRANK shafts, where there are two bends allowing a little more reach at the catch. But the blades are pretty much in line with the upper shaft. They are not what we call bent shafts.



I encourage any kneelers who do mainly downriver cruising to try a low angle bent shaft. Nothing over 7 degrees. But I think it would be unfortunate if kneelers suddenly got into a fashion of using high angle bent shafts. It’s been tried, by racers. It didn’t win races.

more myths?
Myth #4

You have to catch the water with a vertical blade,

where (I assume) vertical is meant in relation to the water surface.



Well I think that is not necessary, as this drawing shows:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~dbarends/images/knikpddl4.png

as long as the direction of travel of the blade through the water is

done perpendicular like paddle A.