Lots of good responses
I like Carbon and s-glass. Not a fan of Kevlar as all past Kevlar boats became soft after a few years. (overrated material) BTW, I’ve busted a few kevlar boats completely apart. Once in the matrix it can shear. Alternately some glass boats have taken bigger hits better. If I had a Kevlar kayak it would be combined heavily with Carbon and perhaps some glass. It’s light so applies in race craft where weight is a major factor over longevity - makes sense here… Plain old e-glass is tough stuff, and any composite is better than poly for me. I really dislike poly boats and would not own one. Various composite materials have favorable and less favorable attributes. There are some terrific lay-ups out there that combine materials to compliment each other. Poly sucks in that it’s heavy, doesn’t hold it’s shape, and tends toward lousy hatches and bulkheads. Valley makes the best poly boats…Id do that if I had to.
Evans:
I’d be interested (and I’m sure others here as well) in what these chemists/physicists told you about Carbonlite vs. Airlite/other Thermoplastics. Can you give us a link for more info or explain further?
There has been a lot theories/speculation offered on these boards about the differences but no real facts or “expert” opinions offered. (I don’t take what salespeople say as the truth.)
Inquiring (& even “simpleton”)minds want to know.
Plastic vs. Composite
I can’t comment on the merits of glass vs. kevlar vs. carbon, but I can comment on the more general issue of plastic vs. composite (whatever kind I would think).
I paddled plastic boats (as most beginners do) and then I got a composite (first a kevlar then a glass—by circumstances) and to me there was NO COMPARISON between the way that they paddled. I know that some would debate this point with me, but to me the difference was very noticeable.
They feel faster and smoother in the water. I feel that they handle better on leaned turns. They feel better in rough seas, remaining stiff as you crash down over an oncoming wind wave rather than flexing like plastic. They are lighter to carry, and I even just like the “sound” of them in water better.
I miss the durability of plastic, and my get another plastic boat one day for rough use, but for performance paddling I think composite is way better than plastic.
Matt
spectra?
I noticed on the West Side Boat Shop that Spectra is used,I think Eddyline is using other materials than kevlar in their Modulus layups. Are you familiar with Spectra?
Working with Carbon
Lately, I have been working with Carbon, and to me, it is as easy as working with Glass and way easier than working with Kevlar. The best thing of working with Carbon is its weight. Although 5x more expensive than Glass, the final weight of the job is 1/2 of one with glass and many, many times stiffer. Anyway, all depend on what one is looking for…
Regards,
Iceman
LeeG
I know and like the Eddyline folk. Not sure what they are currently using in their modulus lay-ups though? Spectra is tough stuff, and like kevlar is way strong in tension. Don’t know it’s values for compression, but suspect they would be better than kevlar. Kevlar doesn’t like to stick to things and thus inter laminar shear can occur over time. Think that’s why my Kevlar surf yaks got very soft after a couple of years. Carbon glass has held up way better. I wonder if Spectra would be better? Vectran had promising values on paper, but proved lousy in kayak construction. There are so many ccol co-weaves etc., out there, but it seems that plain old e-glass offers great value and durability. Case in point Mariner boats.
I like folding kayaks.
You don’t worry so much about scratches and impacts. And I love the way they flex over waves and other rough stuff.
True, they are slower than hard shells, but still are extremely seaworthy, and last for ever.
Plastic is the way to go
Unless you are a racer or high performance tourer, I think plastic makes the most sense for most paddlers.
White water and all fast moving rivers are better in plastic. Surf is better in plastic. Rocky shores are better in plastic.
For flatwater or fastest or lightest plastic won’t do it, but for most other uses it is the best comprimise. That’s why there are so many boats made of the stuff.
Surf: “Lighter” = Better Performance
and being able to make the critical moves/sections. Composite is way better than plastic. Plastic surf boat is great for a starter surf boat and for those who surf rocky reefs. Hard core surfers will use composite no matter what, even if this requires more repairs or a new boat more often. The difference in performance is very perceivable and making a critical section can the difference between an exhilarating ride or getting squashed like a bug by a big breaking wave.
sing
Yep, what sing says
Stiffness is critical, and can’t be accomplished in poly, compared to a cored composite hull. Like driving a ferrari Vs a mini van. That’s why I prefer Carbon glass surf boats to those with Kevlar. They last longer in my experience which is about 12 years of surf yakking
best material
We’ve owned four glass, or glass kevlar kayaks and maybe six poly. In every case the composite was more fun to paddle but we did like using the poly for some Michigan rivers since scratching the gel coat gave us the willies even though we knew it’s part of paddling. Now after paddling our Hurricanes for over a year we think we’ve found the best compromise-Trylon. The rep told me it was a very different material from Airlight-lighter and more elastic. It sure cleans up easy. So if money is of no object get a composite. If you are watching your dollars go for Trylon. We can’t tell the difference in any regard (stiffness-turning etc) in our Hurricanes from our composite Wilderness and Swifts. But jump in to our poly boats and we feel really sluggish and can’t make our turns as crisp and miss the quicker acceleration. Admittedly, we keep the poly kayaks around for guests and the kids.Shame on us!
Guess it depends on where you paddle
While I’ll agree that composite boats are better and stiffer and paddle nicer.
I don’t think they are the way to go for rocky areas unless you are going to get the really heavy lay ups like the Kruger canoes and certain kayaks like the Tsunami Rangers use.
For surf without rocks or seakayaking and river paddling without rocky shores composites would be ideal. However if that were the case I’d rather have a wood stripper composite boat than the glass or kelar ones they make most often.
For everday river use poly still reigns supreme
hmm
Titanium would get my vote…
Titanium kayak
Has been done! Yep, Necky superplastic formed two Titanium surf kayaks. Spyders. It was an experiment that sort of worked. Hull and decks came out a bit rough. I got to see one, and it looked rough, but I tossed a 40+/- lb. piece of concrete on the deck and it bounced off! As I understand it the project was just too costly. Very doeable, and you’d have a lifetime boat, but who’d pay 5k for a surf yak?
So You Actually Saw Them…
who’s holding onto them now? Be pretty darn cold for winter surf though. 
Everything has a drawback, eh?
sing
Not cold
Ti actually does not conduct heat well. Cold is a form of heat:) Had a carbon seat. The boat was painted to cover up forming flaws. Imagine a Ti touring boat. Light as composite, extremely durable, inert in salt water, environmentally friendly… Actually Japanese are building Patrol boats out of Ti. Common material in deep sea subs etc. Very cool material.
yeah
But you cold actually put a grill on the cockpit and use it as a BBQl!!! How cool would THAT be!!!
that’s a Ti misconception
Ti actually has a high heat transfer rate in practical application. A Ti boat would indeed be cold.
Not to derail the thread but does this
mean that one of those tiny Ti wood stoves would be less efficient than its heavier cast one?
No one material is best for kayaks or canoes, but if I had to use only one thing it would be carbon for sure. Epoxy goes without saying around here.
Titanium
Ti, is a metal that does not conduct heat well. You can hold it to a grinder and be holding it bare handed a couple of inches away from the red hot. This is one reason it is used in aerospace applications. SR-71 etc. The stove deal is about flame and BTU’s. Now an aluminum pot would transfer heat better than a Ti pot. The most common Ti alloy in aerospace applications is Ti6Al4V. But this is a kayak site, so I’ll leave it at that. Materials are just materials with pro’s and cons. Choosing the best for a given application is what interests me.