Interesting that you caught that. That said, my recall is that the Solstice line by CD was fish form. At the time I got my Squall in the 90’s, CD was a dominant player and had very few swede form boats. Can’t speak to the others. I know CD later added more swede form designs. Also don’t have a great recall of that detail for some of the west coast brands.
Lincoln is out of business I think.
I love my CD Solstice an 2008 haven’t tried the newer updated model.
My CD Extreme now called Nomad is great also for speed, comfort, ride, tracking, and gear I have regular and HV model. Quality of CD glass boats is second to none. You can find used one’s also if not in a dire rush.
No. It looked that way but they just no longer distribute with dealers, working directly with customers instead.
The OP asked about build quality. Things have changed with the amalgamations of the last 15 years, but the original BC manufacturers - Brian at CD, Steve at Nimbus, Mike at Necky, Robin at Atlantis, and the Seaward guys - were known as top shelf builders. People used to shake their heads at the poor quality coming out of the UK compared to the BC boats.
Necky and Atlantis are gone, CD has been sold and now is producing lower quality builds (the Danish models have been questionable, according to a local outfitter who stocks them), but you can still find old boats on the used market. Seaward still has their factory and Nimbus is still producing, though in smaller numbers.
If I were looking for a boat now, I’d either go for a new Seaward (I’d look at their Guide) or Nimbus (a Solander or Telkwa) or I’d look on the market for an old Canadian built CD. All those boats have big hatches, lots of volume, and rudders, perfect for 2-3 weeks on the outer coast of BC. Is that an expedition? Dunno. I call it a holiday.
Allan, what are the characteristics of Swedish design, other than the well known Swede form versus fish form hull shapes?
Curious precisely what’s “questionable.” Can you elaborate?
I’d have to get in touch with him, as I can’t recall specifics. But I do recall on two separate occasions that he told me how unimpressed he was with the build quality, so I’m sure I have the general tone right. I’ll see what I can find out.
That is the only characteristic I know of.
When I wrote my first post, I was actually wondering if they had excluded the Swede form from the list, because it would require top view photos instead of side views.
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Allan, thanks for your input. It seems to me that Swedish (or Swede form) is more of a hull feature than a design style.
Many - but not all - North American style kayaks are fish form. Are there any British style boats that are not Swede form?
OK. When I see discussions of design styles, it is usually hull features being discussed, since that is what decides the interaction between the kayak and the water. So I thought that this discussion was also about hull features.
To be honest, you caught me off guard with that question, since I have always thought that none of them were swede form.
First I had to check my own two British kayaks:
My Valley Quajariaq is a very obvious fish form. But that is cheating, since it is Greenland-ish in hull shape… Anyway, according to this link, Valley kayaks are traditionally fish form:
https://www.kayaksandpaddles.co.uk/canoe/kayak/uk/shop/valley-sea-kayaks.htm
“Valley kayaks are traditionally “fish-form” i.e. widest point slightly forward of centre.”
I have a Tiderace Xplore too. On that one, the distinction between fish or swede is too subtle for me. It is widest approximately at the centre of the cockpit. So I had to start googling, and it seems that it is swede, whereas the Nigel Dennis Explorer is fish.:
Further googling has revealed that the swede form probably has nothing to do with Swedish kayak design at all. Which is probably what you have patiently tried to explain to me. Sorry for the confusion.
The fish versus swede form in terms of earlier North American boats was totally about whether the hull becomes a bit broader ahead of or more at the rear of the cockpit. Nothing to do with the the nationality.
Never did find out why the names were what they were.
Yes, that has occured to me now. When I started writing in this thread, I thought that Swede form referred to a “complete” Swedish hull design philosophy, with the “wide behind centre” feature being the most prominent feature of that philosophy. But it is obvious that I was wrong.
It is interesting to read about the many theories about the origin of the name. Some - including the most famous Swedish kayak designer, Björn Thomasson - think that it comes from the shape of a turnip. Others think it comes from yacht building - where it of course still may be referring to a turnip. And others think it comes from German “Schwedenform”, which actually refers to Sweden.
And Lettman thinks it should be called Lettmann-form because they claim they invented it.
Thanks. Reason I’m interested is because I have a kevlar Prana LV. It was purchased from the CD rep who used it as a demo. As I had checked out the boat, I was aware that the hatches leaked but the rims were removed, reinstalled, and resealed before I handed over my $$$$ and so far, remain dry. I was told CD was changing the way the rims are installed to prevent that problem. My Prana was built in 2018, so maybe they have.
Other than the initial leaky hatches, it seems very well made so I wonder if there are specific things I should look for.
1) @CapeFear, would you say the Current Designs Prana is sportier than the Explorer in that it turns and surfs more easily, and would you say the Explorer tracks straighter?
I wish you could test paddle the two. Yes, I would say the Prana turns more easily, and is more playful riding waves. I would say the Prana has a cockpit configuration that allows your legs to be closer together and your knees able to rise a bit further, offering a configuration that allows for a more comfortable and aggressive forward stroke. I found the Prana quite neutral in the wind. A boat that is more maneuverable and playful on waves responds more quickly to the same input, and usually responds to lesser input. So when you get in waves, you can carve around nicely, but in the Explorer, I think you can plod along with less directional control input.
As mentioned above, I have never been under the impression that NDK/SKUK boats have historically been of some superior build quality, but a respectable build quality. I don’t know of a brand that I haven’t heard of someone having some kind of issue.
Wenonah canoe acquired Current Designs I think all the way back to 1999. It’s a family-owned business in Wenonah, MN. They built kayaks in Canada until at least 2004. I’ve got a MN built kayak made in 2011, and one made in 2019. I’ve been quite happy with the build quality. Not sure I buy into lower quality builds. I like the glassed in bulkheads and composite seams that they now use. I think in general, composite materials and processes have improved over the years for kayak manufacturers. I guess time will tell with my Sisu - I’ve got kevlar heavy water layup - and she seems truly solid. My experience with CD is that if something went wrong, they will stand by it.
The design is really quite different between the Prana and Explorer. They just both fit in the all-purpose kayak category quite well.
Danish-style is probably simply a nod to designer Jesper Kromann-Andersen. I own 2 of his designs, the Current Designs Sisu and Zegul Arrow Play HV. We had small long-period swells yesterday and today, and I was out in the Arrow Play along with a bunch of OC-1’s and SUP’s, and a few surf boards all getting super long rides. I figure the terms “British-style” and “North American-style” were already playing fairly loose with anything all that truly specific (I’ve no doubt some will disagree), and having paddled those two and the Prana and Karla, I’d say either there’s enough there to suggest a “Danish style”, or I could say leave that “x-style” description completely out of the kayak world.
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I also couldn’t find out the derivation of the name.
But that might be why sometimes I see the word written as Swede (capital S) and sometimes as swede (lower case s).
Certainly in the UK, turnips/rutabagas are commonly referred to as swedes 
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Well couple of North American brands to look at: Sterling Kayaks, Impex, Current Designs and Lincoln. Keep in mind fiberglass kayaks are really hand made so you are really paying for the cost of labor. If you are thinking of a brand new fiberglass kayak. The price point for any brand is going to be 4000 and up. I bought a new Rockpool Isel in 2018 for 4300 not including tax. If cost is a issue take your time and save up as I did, or buy used lots of options out there.
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My CD Sisu was made in 2017 and I’ve got two hairline-cracked hatch rims and discovered a substantial void in the gelcoat right around the rear dayhatch rim. It was a demo boat before I acquired in 2018, but the hull and deck were nearly scratchless, suggesting light use.
The CD Prana has been our best selling long boat for the last couple of seasons (we also sell NDK, P&H, Wilderness, used to sell Lincoln until they went to all on-line).
The most notable visual difference is the higher foredeck. It encourages a more centered knee position, which helps with leg drive and enables good torso rotation.
The boat also has noticeable rocker, particularly in the stern. Makes it very maneuverable, especially for a 17’+ boat - one of the things folks like. You will reach for the skeg a bit sooner that in some other boats, but that’s what the skeg’s for.
Our experience is that the build quality is good. Boat is built in Minnesota.
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I have a Seaward Nigel Foster Shadow that is probably overbuilt, if such a thing exists. It seems like it must be an expedition layup, if Seaward does such a thing. It’s an incredibly solid, and heavy, layup. I don’t think it even has any spider cracks, it is scratched from use, but still glossy and shiny. It’s a beast, probably weighs close to 70lbs. Just got back from 10 days of paddling in Maine and it barely shows, even though it got dragged around fully loaded on some rocky beaches.
So nice to see Necky mentioned!
I own a 17’ 10" Tesla NM manufactured in 2002 that’s my expedition boat. Joey at Turning Point Boat Works in VA refurbished her last winter. Other than replacing the degraded foam bulkheads with glass, he found not a single stress crack or anything that needed to be repaired.
I asked him what other kayak would be comparable if I had to replace her. His answer, nothing on the market today is comparable with Necky’s build style.
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