@anon47962293, it would be interesting to ask Joey and other kayak repair pros for their recommendations for best build quality makers.
I have spent time in the Tempest 165 RM and Pro and I have owned a Tempest 170Pro for over 10 years. The 165 is a lot more fun to paddle but doesn’t hold enough gear for my 3+ week trips. The Tempests are solid performers that will take you through whatever the weather and water demands.
A problem with the Pros is that the build quality varied. At least it did towards the end. I know that with mine I needed to add some resin to the skeg box, change out some deck washers and caulk the hatch rings. I also replaced the seat with foam but that is just me.
If you find a 165 with a good pedigree it could be a good choice. Not your only choice. Just know that sealing up my T170Pro made it an excellent trip boat that I can’t see ever replacing. If I needed a day boat or was a smaller paddler looking for an expedition boat I would seriously consider one. Depending on when the boat was made and who assembled it, it could be awesome or it might need some work. I’m glad I chose the “work route”.
I have paddled two different plastic Romany models during a 4 week training trip to Anglesey, Wales. I was very surprised about their low top speed.
I can usually paddle any kayak to 5-5.5 knots over a short distance. My cruising speed for a few hours is 4-4.5 knots, also in short, maneuverable kayaks like Arrow Play and CD Sisu. The Romanys I could only get to 4 knots over a short distance.
I didn’t like the balance of the Romanys either. Far too much primary stability for me. A lot of people will probably prefer that, but I am more happy in a kayak with less primary and more secondary stability.
The Explorer I have only tried shortly when we exchanged kayaks during a trip. I found it incredibly maneuverable, compared to my Tiderace Xplore, which is supposed to be a very comparable kayak.
Yup, the Romany is slow hull. I would place most of the cause on where they place the cockpit, further back than middle.
Interesting to hear your take on maneuverability between the Explorer and the Tiderace. Yes, they are presented as being very comparable boats. The Explorer has “enhanced” maneuverability for me because I am under volume for it, so the bow is not really seated in the water. But I presume both of these boats actually sit on their waterline for you.
Straight from Current Designs website…
Swede Form: Widest behind the cockpit, Swede form has a cleaner, longer and more slender entry, giving efficient touring speeds and maneuverability. In shorter lengths these kayaks are very responsive. Longer kayaks with this feature have amazing acceleration and track well. Because of the narrow bow they may punch through a steep wave, rather than ride over it.
Fish Form: Widest ahead of the cockpit, Fish form kayaks have a more blunt entry but will have a more slender exit through the water. The bows typically have more flare and are usually more buoyant than others. This enables our shorter boats to be excellent surf zone kayaks. Longer kayaks benefit from this feature in large seas.*
You’ll also see definitions that state the differences are whether the widest part of the kayak is forward or backwards of the mid point of the hull, and (probably more correctly) of the point of greatest underwater volume. And there are some kayaks that are neither swede or fish form but have symmetric form. These differences tend to be subtle though and not hugely pronounced.
What about the Impex Force Cat 3?
They must have, yes. I was 105 kg at that time. Which I guess is somewhere around 230#.
Since at least 2018. Can’t recall if we had them earlier than that.
Not sure if this is OK to post, but here’s Joey’s website if you’d like to pose the question directly: https://www.turningpointboatworks.com.
Joey has close ties with Chesapeake Light Craft in Annapolis, MD and has miles of kayak building experience. He’s actually taken the CLC Petrel and in conjunction with Nick Schrade, made a fiberglass version the Petrel Play.
I will tell you one of the things he said was different about the Necky layup was the single, heavy layer. If I understood him correctly, the current build style is to use multiple layers. He also said that, in his opinion, a kevlar/composite combo is a recipe for stress cracks due to the different flexibility of the materials.
Cheers,
B
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NC designs do not need a skeg, nor a rudder. They used to offer an optional rudder, but I’m not sure that they still do. The Expedition is 19’-2" overall, so yeah, it’s going to take a little bit more to turn it around, but it was never designed to be a slalom boat. The boat goes where it is pointed–period. It requires that you learn a proper bow rudder as a stern rudder does nothing except when surfing. The NC Expedition is a big-water boat and is not the boat I use for a quick paddle around a lake, or on small streams.
I used to be 6’-2" and weighed around 180, but I’m also 77 years old and I think I’d have to get on a stretching machine to see 6’-2" these days. I also don’t eat as much, so I’m down a few pounds. I can still carry the Expedition on my shoulder and I can still make the boat move.
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Magooch that’s great to hear about the NC Expedition and about your kayaking and shouldering a kayak! We’re close in height and weight. I’d expect a kayak that long holds a course well. How does the NC Expedition handle waves hitting from the sides?
(Asking because the longest kayak I’ve paddled regularly is a 17 footer, fairly easy to turn and handles waves well - a Necky Chatham 17. I have no problem keeping it on course, but it doesn’t track (without using the skeg) as well as some other boats I’ve paddled
Quick note here about the WS Tempest. Steve Scherer (Flatpick) once told me that the Tempest was modeled after the Kajaksport Artisan Millenium, which is a boat that I have, and Steve knew that. Steve worked for Wilderness Systems.
I’ve also come across another North American maker, Atlantis Kayaks, based in British Columbia: :https://www.atlantiskayaks.com/kayak.htm Anyone hear of them or familiar with their sea touring kayaks?
Some nice Lincoln build videos on YouTube worth watching.