Boat for small paddler

Wow…so many replies…
…and so much great advice. We can’t thank you all enough. You’ve certainly pointed us in some good directions and it looks like we’ll be demo’ing a lot of boat (vice bikes…LOL). Yes, I slipped on that one. We enjoy mountain biking as well as road biking and she is a spinning instructor. Too many things on the mind. At least I didn’t bring up motorcycles. :wink:



There are some extremely good points that have been made. One of those was how narrow the boat should be. We’ll have to wait to try some out, of course, but with her center of gravity being so low (very muscular thighs and petite upper body), she can get away with a lot less beam than I can (picture an inverted pendulum - 5’9" 225 lbs.).



Hey Patrick…we haven’t had a chance to try out the two awesome paddles I got from you, but she was more than excited she received it as one of her Christmas presents. It will be getting a lot of use over the next few weeks as we sample different boats. I do wish we were out your way, I’d love to see her try out the Mermaid. Oh, and as a side note, I have to wait awhile longer before I return my older paddle for the repair. Money has been a tad tight and her boat is taking priority. (For those of you wondering, it was my fault the blade cracked - very poor job of packing up our gear in the back of my truck - bonehead).



Oh, someone asked where we were…we live in the Cocoa Beach, FL area.



Again, thank you for all the fantastic advice. We do plan on going over to Sweetwater to try out a few boats and get her some lessons.



Cheers,



Joe

Finally!
that’s getting there to the true smaller paddler size.



Nice looking boat. Wonder how deep it is. Probably could trade some depth for a bit of length to maintain volume.



18.5" width will require some quick development of comfort with rolling/sculling. At the same time, that hull would facilate that. I find my 18" wide SOF plenty stable, even out out in waves and chops.



sing

It is a nice looking boat, but I would…
…like to see it with an ocean cockpit option as well. In any event, it is good to see some nice “smaller paddler” boats coming onto the market. It’s about time! :slight_smile:



Melissa

oh, one more thing
like you need that LOL.





As Celia and others have pointed out, some desirable possibilities in a true seakayak for the small paddler come only in fiberglass.



Do not discount the possibility of finding a used FG kayak, for example, a Wilderness Systems Sparrowhawk, an Impex Mystic, a CD Slipstream, or Valley Pintail. The Tempest series is a very recent design and perhaps less likely to show up used.



You are in an area with many kayakers. Sometimes people let a great used boat go for a nominal price. It might surprise you. Check church and rummage sales, eBay (for known makes). A lot of times people are selling a kayak they’ve never paddled and don’t really know what they have.



BTW, I should mention the seakayak I found,used, in early December: a North Shore Fuego, British, full fiberglass incl hatches, 15’11" and 20" wide, slider skeg, with a low cockpit 16"x26", 44 lbs. It was in San Francisco, listed on pnet and thanks to the seller’s excellent pix and measurements I was OK with shipping it here, without demo’ing that particular kayak. It was a great deal.



It’s no longer made, but if you should come across one, whooeee, it’s fun and fast, and eminently rollable (now I gotta try that).



Best of luck & much good paddling to you and your gf.

small paddler
The average American women, like it or not, is 5’4", 140#. Any boat marketed toward a woman is not necessarily going to be particularly suitable for a 5’1", 105# woman. There have been a lot of recommendations for boats for small paddlers, but this paddler is particularly small. I have a Wilderness Systems Sparrow Hawk and it would be cavernous for a 5’1", 105# woman. It would not track or roll well for her. The Newt that someone recommended looks like the perfect boat, but I’m sure it is pricey. I think it will be quite a challenge to find an affordable used boat that is sized well (not too wide, deep). How about making a s-o-f? Good luck finding the right boat.

Average weight & height for women

– Last Updated: Jan-22-07 11:14 PM EST –

the preceding comment was good & thoughtful, however, it cites outdated statistics. It's actually even a worse scenario for the petite woman of light weight:

The average weight for an American woman (as of 2002, the last date available from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention) is even higher:

164.2 lbs in 2002 compared to 140.02 lbs in 1960. In the same timespan height has increased only one inch: 5'4" in 2002, compared to 5'3" in 1960.

Thus American women (and their male counterparts) are not that much taller but measurably heavier, with a concomitant rise in BMI or Body Mass Index. The full CDC link for men and women, with some discussion of age brackets, and BMI, is here:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/tallbutfat.htm

With this trend, and the growing amount of American obesity as documented elsewhere, this no doubt influences and will continue to influence the design decisions inherent in cars, stadium seats and kayaks! Especially among American makers, big is better and suitable for a bigger (ahem) target market.

I agree that an especially short and lightweight woman like Joe's gf has fewer options available to her now, and probably fewer on the horizon.

Maybe the best hope is to find an older British kayak given the anthropomorphic differences in that population, especially 5-10 years back. Or wait for that new Avocet LV from Valley!

Or, as nchill suggested…
…perhaps a custom sized SOF boat would be the way to go. In addition to being fun to build, this would also be the cheapest way to acquire a very light, seaworthy craft (and very beautiful as well!).



Some people have built them for much less (using old wood they had laying around for the frame, for instance), but even if one were to go out and purchase all new materials, a very fine SOF boat can be built for about $200 USD. A nice Greenland Paddle can be carved out of a clear WRC 2x4. Though perhaps a few dollars more than any old 2x4, this is still a very cheap way to have a very nice paddle.



The direction my preferences are taking me, it’s becoming cheaper and cheaper to acquire both boats and paddles. My first boat was a brand new fiberblass CD Caribou (I still have and use this boat). My second boat is a CLC Arctic Hawk, and not counting my “labor of love”, it was cheaper than any new FG boat. My next boat(s) will be SOF, and future paddles will be my own self-carved GPs. It just keeps getting cheaper every day to acquire boats and paddles! :slight_smile:



Melissa

Skin on Frame
I fully respect this option and have admired a few SOF boats. The diversity of kayak build and style is fascinatin’…



But that road is not for everyone… some just don’t have the time nor the workspace. Also, the ability to work with one’s hands seems to be a vanishing trait among some segments of our society (and especially people under 30). I see this in the construction industry all the time and from working at the order desk in a lumber yard oh, about 7 years ago, evident even then.



Lastly, at a beginner level (from virgin to high beginner) maybe a boat of a more substantial material would be better for the inevitable learning curve, e.g. the first few stupid things we all did with first boats…


Small boat design quandry … molds
take a lot of time to do … have to commit eventually and try to get the widest range for a given design intention … Some 115# people can still be 5’8" + or a 5’1" person can weight over 160 # … now what to do ?



Not sure where greyak is but he would already be saying it.



19" should not be a worrisome # to a smaller scale beginner person. Really just right.


Sparrow Hawk and Averages
Thanks to above for the pickup on the Sparrow Hawk being too big - I was trying to indicate to look at it but not necessarily to jump on it - I do know the Arctic Hawk would be way too big in the cockpit.



Averages are a bit funny, since the height has been moving by generation. Boomers are 5’4", moi, generations on either side tend to be up or down by an inch. And weight moves a bit that way too.



AS to boats - by all means if you guys are within shooting range of Sweetwater you should try to get her into a Romany LV and Explorer LV. The above poster is correct - the Explorer hull has volume issues for someone her weight, might feel like a lot more to be horsing around on edge than the Romany. For learning, if not for speed, the Romany would be a hands dwon winner.



One note - you may want to stay clear of the Elite layup if you are concerned about rocks etc. We have an Elite Romany for paddling around here, and for the purposes of having a lighter weight boat that’ll do all the Romany does it’s fine. But it’s not a layup for rocks in Maine.

boat size
Definately try the boats out first! I’m 5’6" and 130 lbs, and the tempest 165 feels far too big for me. I paddle a BBK valkyrie, and I’d bet the BBK Idun would be a perfect fit for your partner.

Custom SOFs
I was pleasantly surprised to find that having a custom SOF built can be less expensive than buying a new plastic sea kayak.



http://qajaqsofpeters.com/



Might not be an ideal beginner boat, but if she gets hooked…

s-o-f
I can understand not having the time or space to build a s-o-f. As far as skills go, though, that is another matter. Having recently completed a s-o-f, it was apparent that great woodworking skills are not necessary and any minor goofs will not affect the utility of the boat.



Though some think a s-o-f is not a beginner’s boat, I beg to differ. One gets used to what one paddles. In the class in which I built my boat, there was a woman who had only kayaked twice before, and that was in a wide-ish rec boat. She did fine paddling her s-o-f for the first time, including learning how to balance brace and recover in her first 15 minutes of paddling.



-Nancy

Well said. And…
…smaller versions can be made for kids as well. In Chris Cunningham’s book “Building the Greenland Kayak: A manual for its Construction and Use”, p.179-180, he describes how he made small kayaks for his kids (just as the native Greenlanders do for their kids).



I’ve been wanting to build my first SOF for a long time now, and it looks like I’ll finally be starting on it in the next month or two.



I have a glass boat and a wood/glass boat, both of which I love, but I must admit that it’s the SOF boats–and hand carved GPs–that inspire me the most. Lucky for me, these are also the least expensive to acquire; especially if you build your own, which I intend to do. I really like the idea of building my own boats and carving my own paddles (caught the building bug when I built the CLC Arctic Hawk kit, and now there’s no turning back! :-)).



Perhaps some people, when they think of SOF boats, think only of the extremely low volume “rolling boats” that many G-style/rolling enthusiasts build for themselves, but with SOF construction, one can build just about any sort of boat to fit individual preferences in terms of volume, stability, performance, etc.



Melissa

True, but this ain’t rocket science
She needs to get out and start demoing and downselecting based on feel, not just numbers on paper.

Wow…
my head is spinning from all the inputs, but in a good way, I assure you. Thank you all so much. I feel fortunate to have stumbled across this website community. There is such a wealth of knowledge contained here and such really great people. We should do a group paddle someday. :wink:



Thanks again,



Joe

Lots Of Design Variation…

– Last Updated: Jan-24-07 6:30 AM EST –

are possible. Admittedly, most will be to get a customized fit, some specifically for "rolling ease." But the process lends itself to variations. My first SOF is more a compromise between point A-B boat with some manuerabiity put in. Just completed frame is more a slimmed down version of the Anas Acuta with lots manueverability and play in the lines. My next SOF build is for a friend who just wants to go on local ponds and rivers. I have "rec" type boat (14'x23"x8"deep) in mind with multichines to take the "edge" off so she won't get tripped up on it.

sing

Unfortunately…
There are less than 15 Island boats in the US, with just a few for sale between Maine Island Kayak (one) and a few at SKG, and as far as I know not one of them is a Newt. Yet anyway. The boats are getting well-promoted by Steve Maynard so hopefully someone will work out an import arrangement soon.



I’d love to take a shot at that Newt myself, if the Qaarsat is any indicator of how they think about boats. I really do paddle with better form in my Vela than my Explorer LV, and I increasingly think that the reason is the slight diff in width. And having found that the Vela is plenty long to handle big stuff at 15’10", the Newt’s length is intriguing.