Slovrien,
Padded and outfitted are no problem with me. I’m past the “minimalist-is-better” mentality when it comes to outfitting. I like being comfy. I don’t have a Greenlander–but when you get one you may realize your out of room for the entire fleet, hence, you will have to move the Arctic Hawk. I just happen to have a place waiting for it…
Nordkapp sales
The Nordkapp was never intended as a boat for a range of paddlers in a range of situations. The Nordkapp was specifically designed for heavy hauling in big seas. Even many advanced paddlers were not particularly comfortable in an unladen Nordkapp. The newer Kapps are a bit friendlier unladen, and now there is to be an LV version which should paddle well without lots of weight.
Valley is responding to the market. Though it is a particular market. The addition of LV versions of major boats acknowledges that there ar many women and smaller men who paddle seriously. You may note that there will no longer be a Skerry - the boat with the broadest beam of any Valley. The Aquanaut is very successful, in great part because it can be reasonably paddled unladen and also performs well carrying a lot of gear. An Aquanaut has a more lively hull and lower primary with more solid secondary than many boats. It is more ‘fun’ than most 17’7" boats.
As far as the Pintail, there seem to always be more used Pintails for sale than any other Valley boat. Between the Anas Acuta and the Avocet, I think the Pintail’s better characteristics are covered.
I beg to differ
The T165’s cockpit fit adjustments (which I believe are identical to the T170’s) work great ON the water.
Being at the bottom of the “small paddler” size range, I was happy to find that the stock adjustments got me much closer to a perfect fit than literally any other kayak I’ve tried. To make it perfect I had to do as flatpick suggested and add 1/2" minicell foam to the seat bottom. In other words, I made the seat height the same as what the kayak was originally designed to have, before “somebody” decided that most Americans need more stability and their butts are too big to fit with the extra 1/2" height.
I also had to sand off a sliver of the stiff plastic pieces that support the bolted-in thigh braces, to use the 3rd-shortest position. I consider this a strange flaw, but obviously it’s easy to fix.
These two custom modifications perfected the fit for me. Even though the cockpit is quite large, the outfitting makes that irrelevant.
This kayak, loaded with camping supplies, is stable and predictable. Unloaded, it is sheer joy to play in (and still stable and predictable). I don’t care what “style” it is. It works.
Brit Comparable…
Though I’ve paddled dozens of boats, I’ve yet to get into a Tempest. To which Brit boats would one compare Tempest performance favorably? Which Valley, NDK, or P&H boats are the equivalent or comparable to a Tempest 170?
Changing markets…
The above link to a description of “Brit” boats is very helpful.
As I see it there are three general classes of sea kayaks.
- Northwest Canada (baidarka) Eg, CD Soltice.
Tend to be long, wide, with lots of volume. Strait trackers. With rudders.
- “Brit” boat (“west greenland”) Eg, Romany, Avocet, Gulfstream.
Tend to be short (16ft), narrower, and low volume. Very maneuverable. With skegs.
- “True” West Greenland styles Eg, Skin on frame, Artic Hawk.
Long (17-18 feet), very narrow, very low volume. Straight tracking. Chined hulls. Skegs (sometimes).
Keep in mind that these are not hard categories.
The Valley Anas Acuta (nice boat) is kind of between the “Brit” boat (2) (manueverable) and true West Greenland boat (3) (chined hull, low volume). The CD Carabou is kind of between the Northwest boat (1) (high volume) and the true West Greenland (3) (chined hull).
None of these are “bad” boats. They just have different characteristics.
The Northwest Canada boats were popular in North America some years ago (about 20) because they were the only ones generally available. I suspect that the notion that one could carry “expidition” amounts of stuff on camping trips was part of the attraction. People typically use these boats for day trips where the extra volume is a disadvantage (there’s more windage). They are rarely used for camping.
The true West Greenland style tends not to very popular (not because the boats are “bad”). The low popularity of these boats is probably due (in part) to the low volume (people tend to be more comfortable in larger boats) and the (relative) lack of manueverability.
The “Brit” boat style appears to be where the market is focused. There are many “Brit” boat like boats available now. It appears that the NDK Romany (a 16 foot boat) truely defined this style of boat. Even though the “Brit” boats are often characterized as “West Greenland” style, I believe they significantly different.
The Brit boats are “popular” because they are well suited for day trips (the most common kind of trips). They are manueverable, low windage, and fun to paddle. If you are partial to going straight and pushing miles, you might prefer a different boat (eg, the QC700). If like to follow a rocky shore line, a “Brit” boat should serve you well. Note that you can still use a smaller Brit boat for camping. It might not be able to carry as much as a Northwest Canada boat but, if you pack like a backpacker, a Brit boat is fine for camping.
If you are going to camp frequently or are a little on the heavy side, a longer Brit style boat (eg the Vally Aquanaut) might be preferable.
Note that a kayak isn’t an easy chair. It is very easy to buy a big boat because it feels comfortable on the shop floor.
you GO, girl!
gosh I LOVE happy customers!!!
with a little screwdriver and a bit of tweaking the Tempest (and Tsunami for that matter) will fit 85.7% of the market. the other 14.3% will need a sheet of foam and some glue.
sorry about the tweaking you had to do to the thigh brace Pat. sometimes the ol’ assembler misses a mark by a mm.
glad you still ‘like’ your boat!
steve
Pintails
I suspect that the Pintails are sold because people want a boat that goes straighter and is a bit faster (eg, the Avocet). That is, the Pintail is not the boat they expected.
People buy Anas Acutas being much more clear on its characteristics.
Anas Acuta
This seems like a super boat/hull, but don’t think it is large enough for me even though I squeeze into small boats at 6’2" and 190. Even yet, I would love to try one someday…sigh…
you would probably fit
I have friends who are also in that height/weight range who have comfortably paddled the Anas Acuta. For me (5’8", 145 lbs), the Anas is too big! I used to think it was a small boat until I got a little more into the Greenland kayaks. Now my whole perspective has changed regarding the volume of kayaks.
I apologize
for saying such a dumb thing. From any angle it was a stupid thing to say…Reflective of a long hard day and burnout. No excuse though. I know that there are many fit, skilled paddlers out there (many who frequent this site I’m sure). Again, sorry.
Hmmmm
Seems like it is time to go demo’ing again…may have to go see Billy or Amara at The Kayak Centre…
Valley asserts…
that the Nordkapp defined the Brit style kayak. It is a 30 year old model while the Romany is only about 10. It is also a archetypal Brit boat that is nearly 18’long.
The Romany is certainly more imitated than the Kapp. The design and appearance of short (16’) serious Brit type boats was initiated by the Romany.
accepted and returned
It’s cool, I reacted too harshly myself. Sometimes I’m grumpy in the mornin.