Slow?
Slow compared to which other boats?
The Ellesmere is one of the faster sea kayaks tested by Sea Kayaker magazine.
How do you define slow?
I’ve paddled an Ellesmere for six seasons now and don’t find it a slow boat at all,I have no problem keeping up with the group.It’s slow compared to a racing hull and faster than a pumpkinseed hull.I’ve been happy with the fit and finish,have never had a leak and it’s my boat of choice when the conditions are challenging. I’m sure you could get a leaker and can’t comment on the reliability of their new skeg design however my rope skeg has been reliable.
I did move the front bulkhead back,outfitted the ocean cockpit (which I prefer) and moved the skeg cleat to the rear deck.I paddle it a lot and it’s the only kayak I can use for camping trips . The red gelcoat has not faded ,cracked or deteriorated.I do keep it clean,303’ed and stored in the garage when not in use but spend much of every season in use as I’m retired and have the time to camp and paddle.It’s comfortable with the stock molded seat and rolls,skulls and balance braces easily.The workmanship is much better than my Valley boat
although I do enjoy the Pintail too,rough and rugged little beast that it is.
My 2 cents CDN
Bert
Compared to …
QCC 600X, Eddyline Falcon 18, Nordkapp, NDK Explorer. Granted that three of the boats are longer than the Ellesmere but the QCC is shorter.
Ellesmere faster
– Last Updated: Oct-10-05 7:09 PM EST –
At 4.5 knots and above the Ellesmere is faster than a Nordkapp and Explorer. It has a longer waterline than both. Waterline length and beam impact performance through the water. Length over all does not.
The Explorer is fast to turn, but is a rather sluggish boat for its length.
At 3 knots there is less than a tenth of a pound of drag difference among these three. At 6 knots the Elle produces 13.3 lbs, the Explorer 13.98, Nordkapp 14.36 according to Sea Kayaker. At 4 knots and below the Nordkapp is the fastest with the Elle being second.
Basically, the Elle can easily keep up with most boats at most touring paces. Once considering QCC or Falcon 18 you are moving away from responsiveness in seas towards straight ahead speed.
All sea kayaks are some balance of speed turning and speed straight ahead. My Naut is faster than most touring boats covering distance. My Romany turns in a fraction of the distance and with a fraction of the effort.
If flat out speed straight ahead is THE priority in your choice of sea kayak, the get an Epic.
I had a problem with Boreal Too!
I had a problem with a Boreal kayak I bought, and after constant badgering towards Boreal they finally told me to quit bothering them.
They could not believe there was a problem with their Kayak! 
The best thing I can say is that “Friends don’t let Friends buy Boreal” (Kayaks)
If someone offers to sell you one, RUN the oposite way!
what was the problem you had?
could you further explain the problem you had with the boreal, because knowing their northeast rep and working at a kayak shop selling their boats among others I find it very hard to believe they would “tell you to stop bothering them”
Some detailed info would be nice
Re: Different experiences
Yep, different strokes (boats) for different folks. I may have been to light for the Ellesmere, (weighing 150lbs) perhaps another 30 lbs of ballast would have helped since I was paddling it empty? Be that as it may, I’m not sorry I got rid of it (even though it cost me $300 for three outings)An expensive lesson, no Boreals for me.
KAPER numbers
Would you mind posting the KAPER numbers for this kayak, I’d like to compare them to the kayak I’m building right now. Some people have commented that my design looks somewhat like this boat, and I’d like to see some figures.
Thanks.
Bryan
February 2000 Sea Kayaker
Contains the review with stats of the Ellesmere.
The information I am citing are the Broze/Taylor numbers from Sea Kayaker tests which I have entered into a spreadsheet for easy reference.
The Kaper numbers for the Elle are: 2 knots - 0.91, 3 knots - 1.92, 4 knots - 3.67, 4.5 knots - 4.81, 5 knots - 7.27, 6 knots - 13.10.
KAPER numbers
Thanks for the numbers. Do you have a copy of the Broze/Taylor spreadsheet for resistance. I only have the Winter’s KAPER sheet.
My kayak for Winter’s KAPER is coming in at:
Knots Res
2 .96
3 1.99
4 3.66
4.5 5.07
5 7.30
6 12.59
These are close to the Explorer, I believe.
ellesmere
I am amazed at the striking contrast between the RAVE reviews of the Ellesmere on the product review forum, and the concerns noted here. Are product reviews reliable posts by boat owners, or are they from dealers mascerading as consumers? Based on product reviews, I was considering buying a used ellesmere for coastal paddles. But I am a novice and only 5’5" and 130#. It seems I may be too lite to get a good response from this boat.
Elle
In my experince with the Ellesmere it has always been a great boat, 135 pounds is getting a lil light for it, but if you added a few pounds for ballast it would handle great, or if you paddle with out ballast you would have plunty of space for week long camping trips. Personally I think boreal’s quality is very high in the industry, they build good solid boats, the demo elle at my shop in fact came of a trailer going 40 and only had a chip of gelcoat out of the stearn (bout the size of 2 dimes) and a few scratches to show for it. I personally love paddling the boat, and It is second on my list of boats next to my Orion. The only way you can know for yourself is to paddle it though
Weight
I’m 5’6",145 lbs and it handles well and it’s the kayak I use the most.That being said if I were in the market for a day boat I would look for something lower volume,the Elle is a fairly big boat by greenland standards but it works fine as a camping/expedition boat for me.I’ve had a couple of dealings with Boreal head office not related to this boat and it seemed pretty routine business.
Wjlatsha has bad mouthed the company but won’t volunteer any more details.
Bottom line is it’s a well designed kayak that handles well for what it was designed for and there are no hidden flaws to be concerned about.
One minor flaw I found was the seat pan rubs on the floor and creates a wear area under the seat that had to be repaired with a glass patch,then I took the mounting shims out,put some foam between for a buffer thus raising the seat a little.This flaw may be corrected on the newer models,I can’t say but this problem has been found on other kayaks from other manufacturers too,there have been threads on this topic in the past.Any composite kayak that gets used a lot will need some maintenance,modifications or repairs in time.This is part of kayaking and shouldn’t be viewed as a negative.That’s one of the nice things about composite hulls,they’re almost infinitely repairable.
Bert
Seat wearing
I had that happen with my Arctic Hawk, wore a pair of little holes in it, I thought my skirt was leaking for about 2 weeks before I noticed it. If you put some foam on either side of the Elle’s seat and say some quarter inch (mini cell for all of it) under it you wont have wearing problems. Bottom line, its a Good boat by a Great company.
i’ve had one for 3 years
i bought my ellesmere up in Canada as my first kayak after kayaking three times. it was a demo kevlar that an instructor was selling. i don’t think its a beginner boat since the hull design is optimized for lean turns and rough water. at first i paddled it on a flat lake and found that it was quick to wander, in Lake Ontario in the more choppy conditions i started to like it more, and then when i got it home to Coastal VA and got it out in the Atlantic i started to really like it.
i weigh 155 and adding enough ballast to hit the 180lb mark lets the chines sink into the water and become engaged eliminating the wandering feel substantially. it edges very well and after one afternoon of deciding to teach myself to roll i was able to get it at least part of the time.
i’ve taken it on a couple of three day camping trips and it loads up fine, not tons of room but i pack light. the hatches have remained perfectly dry and the finish is of the boat seems fine.
i was worried because the layup of the boreal boats does seem a little light but i have had one incident where i was slammed into the edge of a concrete piling suffering only a small gelcoat chip (this could be a testament to kevlar boats being able to flex on impact better than FG) and regularly do surf launches and landings sometimes with not so graceful results.
i have the old rope skeg design that lets you overcome any debris being stuck in the skeg box by yanking on the rope. i think the new knob control is problematic but i like that they’ve switched to an aluminum skeg.
i wouldn’t use this boat for racing or just floating around on a calm lake but for the stuff in between with a lean towards the choppier stuff i think its great.
“Feels Slow” Doesn’t = IS SLOW
– Last Updated: Oct-21-05 7:55 PM EST –
I've read so much crap on these pages about "fast" kayaks, slow kayaks, etc.
For MOST practical purposes, MOST kayaks are fast enough to keep up with the other idiots in the group...
Example: I own a woodstrip Guillemot Night Heron. It's numbers are:
Predicted Drag Speed (knots)
2 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
Resistance
0.96 1.45 2.00 2.68 3.69 5.05 7.06 9.89 11.61
Yet I don't "feel" it is any faster than my Solstice GTS (which you guys say is "slow"). Note that the CD GTS wins tons of races...
And my Caribou S is "supposed" to be nearly as fast as my GTS. It is NOT!
Unless you do the speed v. drag comparisons, you might as well not yap, yap, yap! And everything is dependent on your weight, the water conditions, the wind conditions, and your condition anyway...
Get some fast boats and go paddle. Yes, there are some dogs out there, but the Ellesmere is NOT one of themmmmm....
Glenn
Broze/Taylor for Explorer
2 knots - 0.94
3 knots - 1.96
4 knots - 3.63
4.5 knots - 5.25
5 knots - 7.92
6 knots - 13.98
I’d have to dig out the Sea Kayaker review for the KAPER numbers.
I’m 5’8", 160 lbs, slim to standard build and a 2006 Ellesmere has been my first kayak of many (CD Prana LV, SKUK Romany, Valley Gemini SP RM, kevlar Avocet, and Nordkapp Jubilee). Among them all, with maybe the exception of the Nordkapp, the Ellesmere is the fastest kayak that I have, and I say that as a traditional GL paddler who uses a low cadence. I am usually the one waiting for others to catch up in the Elle, maybe a result of the round hull and very stiff build.
It has thee most comfortable seat of any kayak I’ve been in. I’ve happily paddled for long hours on a ten day tour and was never once achey or sore from the seat.
The Ellesmere can definitely hold a lot of gear, depending on your style of packing. Coming from backpacking, most of my gear is very small and light.
Initially, it had a low primary stability to me but I don’t notice that anymor as I’ve gained experience. This tippy characteristic, for me, makes the Elle handle rough water superbly, keeping me upright with minimal bracing needed. Following seas haven’t presented an issue.
No kayak is perfect though. I wish they’d made all the hatches a bit sunken and streamlined, as the forward one is. An indentation for a permanently mounted compass would be welcomed. in It’s not the lightest kayak either, but it’s built to last.
For rolling and balance bracing, it takes a bit more effort and is probably suited to someone just a bit heavier, taller definitely more flexible 
However, kayaks that are a little more challenging to roll often demand better technique which will only help me. The low back deck is a definite plus.
The skeg control is mostly well designed, and so simple that it could be fixed on a trip. The spectra cord means that it won’t kink if something forces the skeg up, and I’m able to use the dial while in mid stroke, so it rarely interrupts my rhythm. Having said that, rounded edges on the skeg dial would be an improvement as it’s boxy. I drilled a tiny hole in the rear portion of the skeg fin, just above the hull line when retracted and attached a thin cord with a knot on the bottom to allow a companion to pull the skeg down in case it has a rock in it (from surfing, for example).
I get a lot of admiring strangers chatting me up about the graceful look of the Ellesmere, but its vanity aside, of the kayaks I own, if I could only have one, the Ellesmere would easily be my top choice since it does so many things really well. It’s too bad Boreal Design discontinued production after they were taken over by Kayak Distribution.
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Lots of consolidation across industries, and consumers usually suffer the result. Little innovation and no real choice … cookie cutter products for the “average” customer … keep costs low and margins high …
The Advertising Department’s dream is the R & D Department’s black hole of Calcutta.