Bow & Stern Overhang Positives?

Not unimportant!
I believe from experience that an overhanging bow and stern are very useful in surf and following seas. If the ends are not raised and curved upwards the kayak may tend to pearl in those conditions causing broaching or worse. (pitch pole).

SOF … A little bit of everything Kocho.

a more specific question:
Has anyone paddled anything like a Loki (plumb bow) in steep following seas or surf? If so, can you verify whether the design might have it’s drawbacks in this case?

it’s what’s under the hull
that matters NOT the overhang in a broach. rocker keeps you from broaching NOT overhang.

You can have a straight keelson w/no rocker and a ton of overhang and she’ll broach like a beach. You can have a rockered boat with NO overhang that will do cutbacks w/o a hint o’ broach.


That’s more a matter of bow volume…

– Last Updated: Jul-01-09 12:19 AM EST –

... and distribution (and rocker as Steve says, and wave characteristics, and...).

Kayaks like QCC/EPIC have fuller ends/more more volume in the ends and so offer more resistance to pearling.

Narrower/pointer ends of more pinched gunnel designs have less volume and dig in easier and deeper (why you never see that sort of long narrow LV bow on a surf ski (except maybe the old VentureSport "Needle", which was an extreme flatwater design).

Looking at the long overhang (on similar overall length sea kayaks) as providing more volume/lift/resistance to pearling in not really looking!

Flare? All can have flare to some degree. How that flare responds to pearling, and how it impacts other performance aspects, is dependent on the overall shape/volume/buoyancy.

Consider the cross section shapes/areas up there. The more fuller and plumb designs tend to have convex shapes through the bow, while many of the pointier lower volume types have have concavity. Effects on performance of this concavity is complex (though curling bow wakes, grabbiness of the ends, and reduced forward efficiency are not uncommon - though these can be from/compounded by several other factors).

Not all that dramatic of a thing most of the time. Mostly differences in general feel/personality, but definite differences are there that matter more in those less common times. There are times and places where each has some preferable qualities.

Common wisdom sort of says that having the volume more centered and the ends finer can be nicer for hanging out in tide races and slop (shorter kayak disguised as a longer one?). Having the volume distributed out a bit into fuller ends can be nicer for getting through such areas. This of course assumes similar LWL on other factors, so is pure fantasy.

In reality one type typically has a much shorter effective waterline. While comparable in overall dimensions, a QCC700 probably has a foot and half more LWL than say a Nordkapp H2O (of nearly same overall spec). That alone changes all sorts of things.

As has been said repeatedly. the other factors are where most of the story is written.

Have a look at the newer "play" oriented Whiskey 16 with no pinch, more end volume, less overhang (guess the Mariner bros knew what they were doing after all). Also consider sea kayaks like the Aquanaut that are somewhere in between something like a Nordkapp and a QCC, and makes good use of both approaches by not seeing them as separate/not having some limited one vs the other mentality, and just setting out to design a good kayak by making the trade offs that will result in it doing what it's designer intended.

Think, don't drink (the cool aid), on this stuff. Lots of ways to paddle the waves.

It ain’t the bow rake as much as…
… everything else! Such a simple concept, so hard to get across…

Sort of like asking if someone with a long or short nose would be a better swimmer (without regard to their other attributes, the venue, etc.)!!!

plumb bow
Virtually every surf ski has a plumb bow and they are designed just for very rough water, and do just fine.

It matters what the shape of the hull is not the shape of the bow.

Bill H.

the most important part of a kayak
is whats sitting in it. I prefer a plumb bow, I do not like all the wasted space overhanging water that does not make me go faster, and doesn’t offer any storage space. I don’t really think there is too much design advantage to upswept ends other than maybe sliding off logs, roots, etc. Just build it however you like. Or…build one of each and then you tell us which is better. Would be an interesting experiment.

Happy building

Thanks - seen that; good stuff!
Some interesting kayaks and thoughts there…