Spare Air
There are also devices sold for whitewater maniacs that have a short supply of compressed air. I would not bother. Just use the side of a pool or practice in shallow water where you can push off the bottom if needed.
even if you could figure out how to
get yout body to draw air into your lungs through said tube, the one thing that most overlook is that the length of the tube will not allow for all of the used air (CO2) that you exhale to clear the tube. so on the subsequent breaths you will get less and less new air (O2).
really a bad idea; the breathe off the air in the boat concept is the closest to reality. in all most all cases, I find that I can swing my body to get my face clear of the water even if I can’t manage a roll.
Friend in Need, Friend Indeed.
– Last Updated: May-21-06 6:29 PM EST –
I too hate wet exit, and the hassle of pumping and getting back in and all that.
When I learn to roll this summer, I intend for have a fellow paddler right next to me standing in the water. I will thrash and hip flick and do the best I can do. When I stay still--likely limp from all the unsuccessful effort--my partner will flip my boat back upright and probbaly say, "Dude, you almost had it".
Bucket Heads Unite
http://tinyurl.com/lbaxs
Ever take a bucket–the five gallon ones work best–and get underwater with it over your head, upside down. We had a place on the lake in Mass. when I was growing up and did that over and over.
Now that I have a swimming pool, last summer we took the bucketing to a new level: drop into the deep end with bucket on head, completely underwater. The person in the bucket has no water at all around their face, they are in an air pocket in the bucket, so to speak. Do not let the bucket go off to the side or there will be a huge influx of water that can be very challenging and uncomfortable for the participant. There is a great amount of upward force as tye bucket tries to launch out of the water. But use a fellow swimmer to keep the five gallon bucket underwater and straight upright (basically that person is holding with all theri weight or sitting on the upside-down bucket), the participant can stay under there for an inordinate amount of time… much longer than the average person can hold their breath. Maybe five minutes or so. It is really a matter of when the CO2 outpercentages the O2 in that bucket that they begin to struggle slightly more to breath, rapid respirations and more shallow, become a little woozy, and then bang on the bucket so their trusted partner holding the bucket can let go so that the bucket can break/float to the surface. They then spring up for fresh air. After a couple times of this, though, there can be a fairly stinging headache. Likely neurons dying off in the cerebral cortex or something, and then the fun should stop and get out and grab a bacon cheeseburger or something.
Anyhow, this is serious science here. But not for the squeamish. I really would suggest that you NOT try this at home. I am not advocating it for your fourth of July BBQs; just know that it is out there.
It has, even after doing it, no practicality for learning to roll a kayak though, thistleback. None whatsoever.
Distraction, at best
Thats all someone needs while learning to roll is the distraction of figuring out and relying on this breathing tube. A good idea perhaps, but in reality just might not be practical and applicable.
Try a buddy to spot you and turn roll failure into successful bow rescue practice. My 2 cents.
Cheers
practice alternative
Consensus here seems to nix the breathing tube idea.
Here’s my suggestion for being able to practice without wet exit if you don’t have a spotter:
Use your paddlefloat but NOT on the front blade (the “active” blade in your roll - the one in the water). Instead, put it on the back blade, which is the blade that is out of the water (whether you’re learning a sweep or a c to c, one blade will be out of the water above the bottom of your boat). With the paddlefloat on the back blade, it will not interfere at all in doing your roll, but if after a couple attempts (or more depending on your comfort holding your breath) you haven’t rolled up, you can then easily turn the paddle around while you are hanging upside down. With the paddlefloat now on your active blade, you should be able to roll yourself back up rather than wet exit.
I used this method a bit as “training wheels” when my roll was still iffy, and that way I didn’t need a spotter and could avoid wet exits to maximize my practice time.
The only thing is you’ll probably need to tip over on the same side as your set up, as it’s rather cumbersome to get that paddlefloat all the way under the boat if you tip on the side opposite your set up.
Using the paddlefloat on your “active” blade can lead to bad form because you end up using that floatation and your arms instead of a good hip flick, but I think if you just use it as a last resort rescue device, it’ll help you stay in your boat practicing more, as opposed to losing time and energy going through wet exits.
PS - if you have an inflatable paddlefloat, you really don’t need all that much air to assist yourself up, and having less air will help you still to use your hip flick even when you have to use the paddlefloat to roll up. Start with more, but then experiment to find a minimum amount that will still help you up.
Good luck!
Another idea
If the purpose is to stay in the boat during the awkward stage of learning to roll, where the paddler has started having a hip snap but it isn’t very strong yet, or adding the paddle creates a crisis, all that is really needed is a big hunk of floatation available for a quick roll up to the surface. Yes?
You can pay the bucks for a RollAid BackUp device (or vice versa - we have them and I still can’t keep the names straight) and blow it up by hand to use for practice. Or you could take a dry bag or float bag, tether it to your wrist via a paddle leash (stick to half rolls for this at first), and pull it in to use to help get up if the roll isn’t quite going to happen.
Won’t work unless the hip snap/thigh lift has at lesat started functioning, but that’s true of everything other than an assisted rescude.
Can you clear the tube?
I haven’t done any diving in 20 years but I can tell you that your tube will end up with water in it. Divers know you have to clear your tube by blowing air from your lungs through it.
Your lungs may not contain the volume of air needed to clear a long, wide diameter tube.
I can just see it
A big gulp of water when you need a breath of air the most. It’ll just overcomplicate the already awkward. Honestly i don’t like the idea of something floating around to grab on to, for the chance of shoulder injury as you panic and try to pull yourself upright with arm extended.i am sure not everyone is like me, but i pulled my shoulder really good like that. do i ever wish i just wet-exited.
big gulp
Mmm. A Big Gulp. You just made me thirsty!
Use of floatation
Soemthing like the BackUp device or any other inflatable - you don’t pull straight down on them. At least, if there is a lot of pressure doing that sufficient to risk shoulder injury, the hip snap isn’t strong enough yet to try using this option. The start of the roll has to be there. (And the same risk exists with trying to use a paddle float on a paddle, of someone pulling down and placing a lot of weight on it.)
The best and safest way to use large amounts of floatation in roll practice is to make it act similarly to how you’d use the bow of a WW boat, that is to come up just to the surface and rest some upper body weight on it. Head and some torso over it, that kind of thing, to get to the surface. Then complete the hip snap/thigh lift and come up from there.
Take You Time. Keep It Simple…
you’ll get the roll. Believe it. Don’t bother with the a breathing device. It’ll just be a distraction. Spent the money on good coaching instead.
sing
Thanks everyone for the sanity check . .
Thanks everyone for the sanity check . . .
I’ll just keep trying the roll . . . have a different boat with a nice low back deck which may be easier than my Nighthawk in the beginning awkward phase . . . I’ll just keep trying and always have a spotter, or maybe try Celia’s float bag idea . . . I had thought about that as well. My hipsnap is fine off the bow of another boat or off a spotter, etc.
Paula
I tried it
I modified a snorkel with a flex tube and ran it through the skirt’s tunnel and into the hull.
Yes, it kind of worked, but I started worrying about the unintended gulp of water. My whole reason was to allow me to stay in the boat while practicing solo. In retrospect, a dumb idea. Never practice without a spotter.A spotter standing alongside can act as an “immovable object”, hold your hands to practice hip snaps, help with your paddle position and such. And most iportantly, help you get that extra breath of air between attempts.
Jim
rolling effort
if you put half as much effort into learning the few steps it takes to roll as you have put into this snorkle idea, you’d roll like mad.
Practicing Solo…
I actually taught myself to roll solo. I used a very sandy beach. I locate myself in waist deep water to practice rolling up. If I blew the roll, I used my paddle to bottom brace up. If you bottom brace, you’ll find that it’s more effective to hip snap rather than to just push off the bottom. It saved alot of time from a wet exit and the resulting need to empty out the boat. Just make sure to tuck forward when you capsize over so you don’t scrape your head. Every once in awhile I did end up drifting into deeper water (when it’s windy) and ended up wet exiting. You can always test first by pushing the paddle down to check the depth before you go over.
sing
thats
exactly how I taught myself…
Best Wishes
Roy
yep
same here.
Shallow Water
IMO, shallow water is highly underrated for learning skills, especially since a lot of problems in a kayak come from anxiety rather than necessary physical issues. Working in shallow water automatically takes away a lot of the anxiety and allows you to focus on balance and movement. I used quite shallow water to start the scull and still go back to it when things are going south at times, because it enforces good discipline while feeling very safe. And because of the depth you’ll readily notice if the paddle is starting to dive, or if the upper body is collapsing due to lack of hold on the boat.
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– Last Updated: May-22-06 1:14 PM EST –
With the aid of a gasketed section secured to a snorkel, connecting to the wider 2" PVC tubing and running up through a downsized foam belly-board, you can breathe pretty easily...definitely for practice.