wilsoj2 asked:
>I’ve wondered why so many of Winters’
boats are so high and wide.
Probably because the people who asked him to design these boats
(implicitly) wanted that. I bet that if VCP asked John Winters to
design a boat, it would be narrow and low too, although
it would probably look like his other designs?
Like a Kirton?
If VCP had Winters design a boat, it might look like one of the Kirton sea kayaks.
However, it seems that the priorities of Valley and Winters are not congruent, so such an instance would be highly unlikely.
I believe, Goodman has had a hand in the design of every Valley boat. Until he retires or leaves VCP, I imagine that will continue to be the case.
Priorities not congruent?
Or maybe no one has ever commissioned Winters to do a kayak with a matching list of requirements. His priorities are those of his customers, to which he applies his theories/ideas/skills.
You can’t really say all the VCP’s are alike either… Your VCP Aquanaut probably paddles a lot more like my QCC Q700 than my VCP Pintail!
Somewhere between
The Aquanaut hull profile is based on the Pintail. It is a half inch narrower with much less rocker and is, of course, longer.
As a result the Aquanaut tracks better and is faster than a Pintail while retaining a very lively hull.
I would guess that the Aquanaut's feel is somewhere between your 700 and Pintail.
While it is certainly true that different Valley models handle differently, all that I have paddled share a liveliness on the water that is greater than many other boats (including NDK).
I don't know how that compares to QCC600 or 700s.
According to Aquanaut’s Design Statement
The Aquanaut was developed from the Avocet. They added length and center volume, while reducing the rocker to increase speed, tracking and storage. If you look at a picture of the Avocet and the Aquanaut, the designs are nearly identical. Essentially, a “stretch” Avocet.
I believe the Aquanaut design is a total departure from the Nordkapp, which has more of a clipper bow, finer ends and a more rounded hull. Having paddled both, they feel totally different to me. The Pintail is also quite a bit different than the Aquanaut in my opinion. Again a more rounded hull, lots of rocker and much lower volume.
Nonetheless, whatever its design origins, the Aquanaut is a tremendous all-around kayak and on my short list.
Avocet from Pintail
The line of development according to Valley is Pintail-Avocet-Argonaut-Aquanaut.
The hull section derives from the Pintail.
The Aquanaut and Nordkapp H2O feel similar to me and their stats, according to Sea Kayaker, are also similar.
I do (heretical as it may be) prefer the feel and fit of the Aquanaut over the Nordkapp.
Explorer/ Aquanaut
I’m wilsoj2’s wife w/ the NDK Explorer (LV) - it’s a little of a non-sequetor at this point in the thread but I thought I’d put in a response to an earlier comment that the Aquanaut may lie between an Explorer and the QCC600 (or was it 700?). I paddled the Aquanaut a teeny bit when we were trying out boats at MikCo. I am also guessing that the QCC boat mentioned has characteristics that are generally not so far afield from my other boat, a CD Squall.
In sum I’d say that’s not a bad call. While I am not familiar w/the QCC boat, like the QCC line the Squall has no rocker and tracks like a train (no rudder needed). It handles dimensional water and turning in a much stiffer manner than the LV. The first of the above two also come thru strongly in the Aquanaut, with the break being that the 'naut carves a very fluid turn.
The 'naut does have a more active hull than either the Squall or the LV. It just adores rolling well over onto its side.
In following seas the 'naut seems to maintain its interest in tracking and has great glide, as does the Squall (I never used the rudder there either). For the LV, a little bit of skeg goes a long way.
Celia
Rocker
QCC (at least the 700) may not be highly rockered - but it has more that you might think. It is far from flat. Pointy ends give the illusion of more rocker on Brit designs - but upsweep and rocker are not the same thing. Pictures of QCCs look completely flat, but it just ain’t so.
I have a Q700 and Pintail close enough to touch both as I type this. Most would assume HUGE differnces in many areas that simply aren’t there. Different? Yes, quite. Radically? - no.
Can’t comment on CD Squall - but I would not assume any similarity to Q600/700s. CD currrently has nothing really like a QCC hull. Maybe when the CD Stratus comes out, but that will likely be a bit more like the EPIC it is desigend to beat.
To add to the VCP design progression, its:
ANAS ACUTA - then Pintail (rounded rockered Anas - hence same name de-Latinized) -Avocet-Argonaut-Aquanaut, and not sure where the venerable Nordkapp fits, always assumed it was first.
Anas - Pintail
Yup, the Pintail is a soft chine variation of the Anas, though wider.
An Anas Acuta has a great amount of rocker. I’m not sure a Pintail has more than an Anas.
I was told that the Anas was the earliest of extant Valley boats. It is the closest to a truly West Greenland design.
I believe the Nordkapp is second earliest.
Tom Bergh and Robin Goodlife, refer to the Nordkapp in describing the Aquanaut.
Aquanaut Lineage
That’s for the clarification Jim, I left the Argonaut out of the equation. I’m hoping to do some test paddles shortly of some VCPs and other boats for possible Hudson River duty.
Valley model dates
The Anas Acuta was designed in 1971. The Nordkapp was designed by 1975, as that is listed as its first year of production.
The Anas is likely one of the oldest sea kayak models in production
The Nordkapp has been modified a few times over its 29 years in production.
I believe the Anas is substantially the same as it was 33 years ago.
Anas Acuta
The Anas came before the Pintail. The Anas is based on a kayak built for Ken Taylor by Emanuele Korneilsen of Illorsuit Greenland, in 1959. The Anas went through some revisions, including “adapting it to the European build”.
Earlier this month at the Delmarva Retreat (Qajaq USA Greenland event) Ken Taylor brought a replica of his original Greenland kayak. We got some interesting pictures comparing this replica to the Anas. They are most different in the side view.
http://www.qajaqusa.org/gallery/delmarva04/IMG_1178
http://www.qajaqusa.org/gallery/delmarva04/IMG_1186
http://www.qajaqusa.org/gallery/delmarva04/IMG_1189
The pedigree of the Anas Acuta has been discussed in depth on the Qajaq USA forum. One good thread is http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandTechniqueForum_config.pl/noframes/read/1583 .
Greg Stamer
Thank you
There is varying information out there on the origina of the Anas and Nordkapp.
This info and the linked discussion is very helpful.