failing when needed most because of often difficult-to-detect material breakdown.
An old PFD may float you just fine for the first several minutes to hour in the water. Of course, I can swim for over an hour straight without a PFD. A lot of small boat incident survival scenarios assume the possibility that victims could be in the water hours or days before rescue.
So how long to you float test your MTI for every year?
Do what you need to… to feel safe out on the water. As a Class 1 river runner, it doesn’t take much safety equipment to make me feel secure. Sea kayaking is a whole different ball game. To answer your question, I don’t spend hours floating to test my 5 year old low end PFD. Looks like we disagree on this point.
....it's nice to know that my PFD is still well within the age window for which the manufacturer's independent laboratory has tested and guaranteed flotation for prolonged immersion under 46 CFR 160. It can be a loooooong swim between oil rigs.
For what you do, as long as you give your PFD a visual inspection for wear, and test the buoyancy every year by jumping in for a few minutes, you're probably fine. Then again, after a winter of not paddling, just by feel, could you tell the difference between the 15.5 pounds of buoyancy it gave you last year, and the 14.5 pounds of buoyancy it might be giving you this year (or how many extra pounds of "buoyancy" you put on over the holidays which is appearing to offset the buoyancy loss of the PFD)? Though I guess in your conditions you could still get away with just waiting for the spring that you jump in with it on and find it noticeably less buoyant. Considering the amount of time I might be out in the water on a worst-case scenario, that would be foolhardy for me to do when I can just buy a new one every 3-5. For you to say you "object" to me tossing mine at that interval when you paddle where you do and I paddle where I do is at the same time judgemental and misinformed. For you to assume that RCman will be paddling the conditions you paddle and advise him to discount my advice when he might be paddling open water is irresponsible. My position gives him much greater measure of reliability in his lifesaving device no matter what conditions he might paddle in, and that's why it is also the recommendation of the USCG and PFD manufacturers.
I have always used Lotus. Mine are submerged pretty much every time I paddle and hung to dry in a dark garage or basement. I have been in pools with them but always taken a shower wearing my gear when done.
Maybe it was the Chicago water eating away the nylon? [grin]
I didn’t give advise to anyone I just didn’t believe most people are junking vests at a set time period. Do what ever makes you comfortable, makes no difference to me.
Astral LDB1 is really nice. Mesh back, place for hydration bladder or extra floatation, very comfy, two front pockets, and you can wear it unzipped on hot days by using a single buckle.
It is the least restrictive PFD I’ve seen and all the floatation is basically low in the front.
Look, reefmonkey, I can assess the status of my equipment quickly and accurately, but I don’t think you can. So quit preaching. My ten year old Sherman hardly looks broken in.
not so sure about that G2D I’ve had several life jackets almost come completely apart after three years of use and others hold up great. There is indeed a real difference in the quality of fibers used by various manufacturers and the floatation materials.
As one poster noted using your jacket in chlorine pools can indeed shorten the life of some jackets even if you rinse them well. So if you see your red jacket has faded to pink, there is a good chance the fabric is indeed breaking down due to UV degradation and maybe chemical contact (like certain sunblocks) or pool usage.
Your equipment may stay serviceable for you indefinitely in the lazy, shady freshwater puddles you paddle in, where the bank is always in sight and you might have to float in your PFD maybe 15 minutes max, but those of us who go out onto the salt actually use our gear. I routinely paddle and sail out of sight of land. The Texas Gulf Coast has some of the the highest summertime UV indices in the country, and we don't have the shade of the nearest cypress to paddle under. UV breaks down nylon. Salt from the ocean gets into nylon fibers and abrades them in ways that may not be visible to the eye. It also breaks down the polymers in the foam. Salt also comes from my sweat, which also seeps into the foam, along with uric acid, which breaks down the polymers in the foam. The compression of wearing the PFD snugly breaks down the foam. When you "quickly and accurately" assess your PFD, how often do you open it up and actually check the foam itself, measure its recovery rate after being compressed? Our high humidity means that stuff doesn't dry quickly, especially thick things like PFDs, and the inside dries the slowest. Perfect environment for mildew, even if you don't see it on the surface (or in a black nylon strap), and mildew breaks down nylon and foam. Your "quick, accurate" visual assessment skills don't mean jack to someone with real bluewater experience who knows in an emergency a PFD may have to provide flotation hours or days, and a lot of aging that can lead to failure is invisible to the naked eye
I'll make a deal with you, g2d. I'll stop "preaching" when you stop advising newbies who will be paddling conditions you know nothing about that it is okay for them to ignore the recommendations of the USCG, independent testing laboratories, and PFD manufacturers. What will you do next, tell school children they don't have to cross at the crosswalk, that it's okay for them to take candy from strangers if they look nice?
You may have been a sucker and bought a $125 life jacket that you can't bear to part with, but that's no excuse for giving newbies bad advice. Life jackets are made for more than just the glorified goldfish ponds you paddle in.
...thoughts in his head. Your comment that "You may have been a sucker and bought a $125 life jacket that you can't bear to part with" isn't representative of your normal, logical way of debating, and it also seems very unlike you to stoop to the level of insulting the whitewater rivers in which someone paddles (glorified goldfish ponds). Hurling unwarranted insults does not help your cause.
How about allowing a little middle ground here? You have recognized that the Coast Guard recommendation is conservative enough to cover just about any scenerio. Think about how a bureaucracy like the Coast Guard comes up with such a recommendation. They would figure out what is the lifespan of the cheapest PFD when badly abused and stored between uses in the most severe environment imaginable, and then they would adjust this "lifespan" with a very conservative safety factor to cover all situations. It certainly makes sense that a good PFD, well cared for and used in a very mild climate, would last a lot longer than the bureaucrats at the Coast Guard would ever state. I see nothing wrong with letting a person make their own decision about how well their equipment is holding up, or letting them modify their time frame for replacement based on how extreme their own needs might be. A simple discussion of these differences of approach would suffice, rather than implying that anyone (g2d in this case) who disagrees is only saying what they do because otherwise they'd feel bad about the money they spent. That just misses the point.
Today I went and picked up a Stohlquist DRIFTer from the nice folks at Kayak Coeur d’Alene. This PFD seems to fit me well and is pretty comfortable. I bought a red one for visibility and to match my boat. It does have a couple nice features with a lash tab, pocket and reflective cloth sown onto the vest. The back rides pretty high on my back (I have a long torso) so it won’t interfere with my seat back. I think it will serve me well for years to come. Thanks for all the advice everyone!
I got a little hot under the collar because of g2d's comment questioning my ability to assess my gear, his "brain corrosion" insult, and the tenor of his saying "what a joke." It was insulting.
You are right, once someone is an experienced paddler, they often can use something outside of manufacturer recommendations, especially if they treat the gear better than the norm. That's something for them to discover. R/Cman is a novice, however, asking a beginner's question, so I consider it best to answer him with conservative advice that will take into account it might take him a few PFDs wearing out before he figures out how to treat it right.
Actually, though you entreat me to give "a little middle ground here", that is exactly what I did in my previous response to g2d, the one that got me accused of preaching:
"You may do everything right to keep your PFD in serviceable condition as long as possible, may actually be able to get a little more life out of it than manufacturer guarantees, but the replacement schedule is a good rule of thumb with a conservative safety margin for a safety device under normal use, especially by the majority of the public who will not necessarily care or know to take care of it as well as you do - people like novices on this site who ask basic questions regarding buying a first PFD (eg The R/C man)"
To share your great technical acumen how about providing links to your sources who insist on a 3-5 year retirement?
My Sherman has seen plenty of use, almost always on whitewater, but only occasionally in sweaty temperatures. I took another look at it today, and pulled at the seams, and there is just no indication of damage. I think I’ll try pulling my old Accord with my new Accord, using the Sherman as a link.
If you are doing long surfski stints on the Gulf, I can see that 5 years might be an upper limit. Why you feel you have to impose the views of USCG “experts” and PFD manufacturers wanting to sell more product is beyond me. Fortunately I see no indication that the whitewater community has gotten into lockstep (goosestep?) with such views.
You must have some PFD industry sponsonship. (The misspelling is intentional.)
R/Cman isn’t just doing freshwater As you could see if you check his profile. I believe I already dealt with all this when I posted to you previously:
“You may do everything right to keep your PFD in serviceable condition as long as possible, may actually be able to get a little more life out of it than manufacturer guarantees, but the replacement schedule is a good rule of thumb with a conservative safety margin for a safety device under normal use, especially by the majority of the public who will not necessarily care or know to take care of it as well as you do - people like novices on this site who ask basic questions regarding buying a first PFD (eg The R/C man)”
Don’t you have threads to ask “what does this have to do with paddling”, you sanctimonious little self-appointed hall monitor?
It does have a couple nice features with a lash tab, pocket and reflective cloth sown onto the vest. The back rides pretty high on my back (I have a long torso) so it won’t interfere with my seat back. I think it will serve me well for years to come. Thanks for all the advice everyone!