Talk my ear off
Thanks. I’m all ears.
Steve
Lookin’ at my maps
Yay, excuses to look at my maps… be right back
Ok, I’m back.
If you look at maps (F-16 on the Fisher Co. maps), what we call upper chain and lower chain take you from Agness to the Little Indian Sioux River.
If you were to go in Moose and come out L.I.S. the water would be (numbers are lengths of portages in rods):
Lower chain: (160)(20)(25)Moose River Nina Moose (70)(90) Moose River, Agness (160) Oyster River (60) Oyster (240) Hustler (10) Ruby (280) Lynx (4 if low water) Little Shell (15) Shell (216) Lower Pawness (40) Upper Pawness (60) Little Indian Sioux River(40). This is a very short route. The lakes are nice, but as you can see some of the portages aren’t exactly short. It can be easily done in 3 days of paddling as the whole thing is less than 30 miles.
Upper chain (same map): (160)(20)(25)Moose River Nina Moose (70)(90) Moose River, Agness (24) Boulder River (65) Lac La Croix past Warrior Hill, Pocket Creek (20) Pocket (90) Finger (9) Thumb (200) Beartrack (30) Little Beartrack (30) Eugene (45) Steep (120) South (52) Section 8 (52) Slim (173) Little Loon, Loon (160) Lower Pawness (40) Upper Pawness (60) Little Indian Sioux River(40). Obviously this route has a lot more portages, but not many of them are long. Since the lakes in the middle of the upper chain are farther from entry points, they tend to have fewer people on them. These are some really pretty lakes too.
Of course you said you want a loop. With 6 days of paddling, you could go in the Moose River, do the Upper chain, then swing down to Lower chain (go from Loon Lake through heritage lake to Lynx lake which has two portages 220 and 100) and back east towards Oyster and Agness and south back out on the Moose River. On that trip you’d probably average 10 to 12 miles per day. That would be a fine trip, but you’d be doing quite a lot of portaging. None of them are terribly difficult, but there are certainly a lot of them.
If you can arrange a pick-up or a vehicle transfer I would highly recommend doing some of the border lakes. Fall lake entry to Basswood, Crooked, Iron, Lac La Croix, and out the Moose River would be a wonderful trip. You’d go by a handful of great waterfalls, two sets of pictographs, lots of good fishing too. Also, early morning on the Moose river is great for seeing… moose. The nice thing about border lakes trips is that there aren’t very many portages as those lakes are pretty large. Your longest portage there would be on the Basswood river which is 320 rods, but not difficult.
Or another loop with fewer portages would be to go in Moose, head up to La Croix, and do the top of La Croix west to Loon and then head back to Agness on the lower chain. You’d see two sets of pictographs there as well. La Croix is a wonderful lake. Worst part is that on the Canadian side at one point is a sea plane port… which isn’t all that bad.
Is there anything specifically you are looking for in a trip? Relaxing pace? Sights? Fishing? Milage? Waste-deep mud? Lamprays? Again though, my knowledge only covers the western 40 miles of the B-dub, I"m sure you’d have plenty of great routes east of Fall Lake too. Feel free to email mee too if you like, aaronlolson@yahoo.com
Bed now, hoping to dream of loons and northern lights. Peace,
Aaron
eastern BWCAW
Hi Steve,
This area is in the extreme eastern part of the BWCAW. To the best of my knowledge, the big storm in 1999 did not do much damage in this area, but Clearwater Outfitters should be able to give you better information. One of the reasons that I suggested this route is that you have several options to either shorten or lengthen the route depending on how well everyone adapts to canoeing and portaging. It was a good route to “break in” newbies.
Food for thought.
By the early 90’s, I felt like the BWCAW was becoming too crowded and the fishing was suffering because of the number of groups using the park. Most of my trips have been in late July/early August and this is prime time. I think that you will avoid the crowds by going in mid to late September.
We started going into Quetico instead. Quetico issues approximately ¼ of the number of permits issued in the BWCAW and the acreage is about the same. Permits for entry into Quetico from the US side were difficult to get, so we started entering from the northern side of the park. The advantages were fewer people, better fishing, and you could camp wherever you wanted (no designated sites). The major disadvantage is the cost to camp in the park, but we have always felt that the cost was worth it. We have more recently been alternating trips into Quetico with trips into Wabakimi PP (due north of Thunder Bay). Wabakimi at 3.3 million acres is larger than the BWCAW/Quetico combined and sees significantly less use. My 2 main complaints with Wabakimi are the fact that they still have fly-in cabins located within the park on some of the larger lakes and the fact that they do not have smallmouth bass in the lakes. However, the walleye fishing is outstanding and we have done well on the big northerns (40”+). You can access the park by railroad and/or float plane.
What part of WV are you from? I still have a number of relatives in the Bridgeport/Grafton area. Dave
Thanks and what about…
Thanks, Aaron-
That helps a lot; I don’t have all those details on this overview map. It doesn’t show all those portages and I wasn’t sure about going from Loon to Heritage or if we’d have to go down and over through Shell. They all sound nice. What if we made a loop of Oyster, Rocky…Pocket, Finger, Thumb…Eugene…Slim, Loon, Heritage, Lynx…Oyster? Looks like we could do this from either the Moose River entry or Little Indian Sioux to make a loop. Would this work? If so, which would be a nicer entry point. I don’t really mind the portaging - gives you a break from paddling, stretch the legs, etc. On my first trip we went in Moose and went up onto LaclaCroix the 1st day, then we messed around Warrior Hill, the pictographs, and over to Pocket Lake and lounged around until the 4th day and then went down to Agnes, and out Moose the 5th day. So I’ve done some days with lots of portaging, but my brother and sister don’t really know, so I don’t know how they’ll feel about it. They might be a little freaked by a lot of portaging. Maybe they’ll prefer the border lakes route. I’m basically going to let them decide how much and what they want to do. Of course, they do have a year to prepare.
Absolutely
"What if we made a loop of Oyster, Rocky…Pocket, Finger, Thumb…Eugene…Slim, Loon, Heritage, Lynx…Oyster?"
Yeah, that would be a great route. It is essentially the same as the upper/lower chain route I suggested except skipping La Croix. Yes, there would be a lot of portaging, but I found with groups I took up that the first few portages could be rough but soon enough it becomes routine and not a problem.
Re: Loon to Heritage, that portage is 220 rods to Heritage creek into Heritage Lake, then 100 rods into Lynx.
As far as entry points go, I like both of them. The LIS entry has a shorter portage and the river paddling is shorter. The Moose entry is nice 'cause you go past Top of the World Rock and if you’re there in the morning a little farther down stream you stand a fairly reasonable chance of seeing moose. The only thing I would caution about the Moose entry is that you’ll be going over a couple beaver dams and unless you filter or treat your water, you won’t want to get water until you get to Agness. Nina Moose is a shallow and muddy lake. Also there is more river paddling to that entry point, some of which is going through slow-moving, meandering river in a channel between tall marsh grasses. If water is low (which is entirely possible in the late summer/early fall) you might have to pull your canoe along in a couple places.
One other loop idea if you go in Moose is to go up to La Croix, and east to Iron. That way you could visit Rebecca and Curtain falls which are beautiful. You could then go south through a couple small lakes to Stewart Lake, then head back on the Dahlgren river NW to the Boulder river at the bottom of Lac La Croix again. It’s not a long loop and would allow time for maybe seeing some of the other lakes around and to the west of La Croix.
Ok, back to my research paper for the night. Hope this helps a little. Let me know if you want to know more.
Knife lake area?
Greetings,
I am planning a 5 day trip in late May 05. We are thinking of traveling Moose lake,birch,etc., ending at Knife lake. We are interested in good fishing and relaxation.
Have any of you fished these lakes? I understand that Moose lake is good for fish, however I don’t plan to spend much time on it due to motor travel. Thanks
Not I
I can’t say I’m familiar with that part of the B-waters. I’ve not been east of Fall lake and the west end of Basswood. Sorry.
outfitters and loops
we have used Voyageurs North the last two years and have been very pleased. They can shuttle you so you can take some of the loops mentioned. We happened to do those loops in the last 2 years-went in at Nina Moose river last year- up through Oyster to Pocket, across Finger, Eugene, North/south lakes, down to Loon and out Sioux R north, and this year went at Fall Lake, up to Basswood, over to Friday Bay of Crooked, down to Gun and out at Mudro. Both were done in 5 days, both were beautiful. More solitude on the first route but mostly smaller lakes and streams, more varied scenary on the second route with waterfalls, both small and large lakes,and pretty creeks. I also went with the guys into Quetico in a route entering at McAree Lake, down to Iron (you get to see Rebecca and Curtain falls) up to Argo, Darky, Minn, and out McAree. We drove to Crane Lake, flown to Campbell’s Cabins, towed over and back to our entry and exit points. This route only was around 30 miles with less and shorter portages than those other 2 routes. It also had a fair amount of variety, more larger lakes,waterfalls, Darky River was interesting with fast water(good smallmouth fishing for the first canoe through below rapids) and slow water stretches. We were doing more fishing with the guys. It worked well for 5 days. A layover would give you time to either explore or fish. There were a couple of lakes off Darky we talked about but never got to. For some reason, I keep doing these routes counter clock wise, but clock wise for the first two would make it more likely you would catch the prevailing westerly winds. It did not matter with the Quetico route, it’s a complete circle-and on our trip, you just had to point the canoe into the wind to know which way to go, one of those trips. There are lake trout in Argo and Darky, one of our party caught a 40"!! Pictographs on Darky and Crooked just a little west of lower Basswood Falls.
More ?'s for Paddle2Paddle & Hawkeye79
If we went in the Moose or LIS to do the loop we talked about, what would our itinerary look like? How far would we have to travel each day, what would be the best lakes to camp on, fishing, etc.? Would we have to travel pretty hard all six days? Hawkeye79, you said you went in Moose, out LIS in 5 days, but I don’t know how hard you traveled each day. If you traveled pretty steady all 5 days, it looks like we’d have to travel pretty hard for 6 days to make it a loop. What would be a fair assumption for me to make for an average paddling speed - 2 to 3 mph? I can figure the portaging, but not sure about the paddling speed.
Paddle2Paddle- could the second option you mentioned be stretched to Sunday Bay, down to Sunday Lake, and back across Sterling?
Hawkeye79 - Looks like the 2nd trip you did from Fall Lake to Mudro, could be pretty much duplicated as a loop from Mudro. What about that?
And thanks again, guys, you’ve been very helpful.
Beartrap
Sunday Bay to Iron, to the Beartrap River to Sunday Lake and on. The Beartrap river is a route I’ve been wanting to take for a while. At one time that was a VERY heavily used route. It was so busy in fact that it was over used so the Forest Service stopped maintaining that area and it is now a more difficult route from what I’veh heard. Campsites and portages are no longer kept up. That doesn’t mean that you can’t do that route, but it would be helpful if you did that route with someone who’s done it before. I’ve heard since portages aren’t so obvious and are pretty difficult now and all overgrown.
As far as speed goes. When I was guiding, I generally thought of a 10 mile day as average. It really depends on the skill of your party. If your party can paddle in a straight line and can manage a portage without too much trouble, going 12 miles in a day really isn’t that difficult. My longest day was probably with young high schoolers and we did 17 or 18 miles. So rather than miles per hour, I would look at miles per day. Keep in mind how many things need to be taken over portages - canoe, food/equipment pack, personal pack for three people would mean one trip across each portage and fairly efficient. Really in the end, it depends on how much you want to push. For the groups I guided, 12 miles was respectable in a day. 15 was pushing. More than 15 was something to talk about when we got back to camp. It all depends on the party though.
Answering your question for Hawkeye, you could easily go in Fall, up to Basswood, to Crooked, and down to Mudro in 5 days. In 6 days you could make it back to Fall lake without much trouble if you go through Sandpit lake and back to Jackfish Bay of Basswood. That would actually be a very nice route. I might suggest, though, that if you take that route that you do the Moosecamp River. It is one of my favorite rivers up there.
Thanks
Thanks, Dave. I’m going to contact Clearwater for some info. I’d like to go into Quetico sometime; if this trip works out OK and he likes it, maybe we’ll go in a couple of years, when we can get more time. I’ve heard the name Wabakimi, and also Temagami, but don’t know much about them. My brother and I both live in Morgantown, my sister lives in Charleston, and we all grew up in Sistersville, a small community on the Ohio River between Parkersburg and Wheeling.
Traveling, Moosecamp, Beartrap
I was looking through Beymer’s guide and he has that Sioux - Hustler loop as a 6 day trip, but most days were 7 - 8 miles, and it just seemed like most would be pretty easy - probably about 4 - 5 hours of traveling, including double portaging everything. I was also looking back over the stuff from my 1st BWCA trip in 2002. We entered at Moose River and didn’t even get to the entry parking lot until after 10:00 AM. The first night we camped on Tiger Bay in LaclaCroix. That’s considerably farther than the 9-mile 1st day in Beymer’s guide ending at Agnes. So, it seems to me that the loop could pretty easily be done in 4 1/2 to 5 days, with a layover day somewhere. What do you think?
Is Moosecamp River the one from Moosecamp Lake to Fourtown? What can you tell me about it?
Beartrap River doesn’t sound like a good choice. Is it in one of the PMA’s? I guess we could go on to Sunday Bay and portage to Sunday Lake and go on to Sterling Creek, bypassing Beartrap River, but that’s a mile-and-a-half portage.
Thanks, Steve.
A reason to put off my work… maps!
The sioux-hustler loop. Are you referring to goin in LIS, then lower chain (shell, hustler, oyster) then north to the upper chain (pocket, eugene, slim) west back to Loon and out LIS? I think you could do that route without much trouble. 10 to 12 mile days more or less I think. That certainly isn’t unreasonable. Having enough time to do the whole loop with 2 nights in one site might be pushing it, but might not be too hard.
The Moosecamp River. Yes, it goes from Moosecamp to Fourtown. It is one of my favorite rivers to paddle. Just be aware of low water. To get to Moosecamp, you have to cross Bullet Lake which isn’t much more than a glorified pond which has a shallow and very muddy bottom. If water is low, there is potential for struggling a bit with the bottom of your canoe hitting the mud.
If you can get through to the river though, it will be worth it. I’ve been through that river two or three times. If you go early in the morning, you stand a decent chance of seeing some moose. You’ll be going over quite a few beaver dams which I think is fun. Maybe half way through the river, the land rises up on either side of the river, and the paddle is beautiful. Keep your eyes open for relics from the logging days - chains and whatnot. The only issue that you may have is if a beaver dam is out which would make for part of the river to be way too low to paddle. I’ve only heard of it happening once, but it is a possibility.
If that happens, you can always go back through Bullet to Gun, then down through Fairy and Boot to get to Fourtown.
Beartrap. PMA… the acronym is familiar and I think I heard it in regards to the Beartrap river, but I really don’t recall for sure. I do know that it is not maintained and that a friend tells me that the unmarked portage from Beartrap river to Beartrap lake is really hard. You mentioned portaging from Sunday Bay to Sunday lake. My map doesn’t have a portage marked there. I don’t really know anything about that. I have also not been on Stirling creek, so I really can’t tell you anything about that.
Sioux-Hustler loop
Yes, that’s what I was referring to, but maybe going around clockwise, or maybe doing it from the Moose River entry. It looks to me now like that trip might be a little ambitious, especially if we want to do a little fishing. My brother and sister have never done this, so I don’t know how they’re going to respond and how fast we’re going to be paddling, portaging, setting up and breaking camp. That route also doesn’t appear to offer many alternatives if things are a little slower than planned. Maybe we should just consider going in Moose River and north, then we can loop west through LaclaCroix to Pocket and south through Gebe…Oyster, and out, or loop east like we’ve discussed.
I think I remember reading somewhere that PMA stands for Primitive Management Area, and that these are areas that aren’t maintained, like you’re saying Beartrap is like. I think there was also something about having to get a different kind of permit also.
beaver dams-shudder!!
we ran into beaver dams going up Oyster Creek from Moose river, bypassing Agnes. As we were going up stream and the water was low, we had to push over several dams, one time the #$%* beaver had built a dam 3 feet high which required a full unloading of the canoes to get over. You had to stand in muck to do the canoes. NEVER mention beaver dams to my wife- she will go miles out of her way to avoid muck and beaver dams.
I’d suggest Fall Lake then
heh heh I love beaver dams. I’ve heard not fun stories about that part of Oyster creek though. I’ve always gone through Agness. Besides, since we just drank water straight out of the lakes, we always wanted to get to Agness since the water in Nina Moose is kinda skanky.
If the loops on the F16 maps seem a bit ambitious, I’d suggest going in Fall lake then, then going up to Basswood and Crooked lake. There’s some decent fishing on Basswood river, and there are plenty of options for making loops that direction. The lakes around Fourtown are all pretty nice. The Horse and Moosecamp rivers are fun.
Perhaps consider this:
Night 1: Basswood, shortly before Upper Basswood falls
Night 2: somewhere shortly after Lower Basswood Falls on Crooked Lake.
Night3: Friday Bay
the next day take a little day trip over to Curtain falls - it’s worth it
Night 4: Gun Lake - decent fishing if I remember right.
then to Fourtown and then east to
Night 5: Jackfish Bay of Basswood
and back to the Fall entry point
There are plenty of ways to make this trip shorter, and you get to see quite a nice variety of lakes too.
Fall Lake loop
Thanks. I’d prefer, if possible, to avoid the motorized areas and also any really big lakes where the wind could be a significant factor, since we’ll be a relatively inexperienced crew. How about if we entered at Mudro, went to Horse Lake and took Horse River to Basswood and Crooked and then down to the Moosecamp and out that way? If that’s a reasonable plan, would it be better to do it that way or the reverse?
I’ll give all this information to my brother and sister and let them chew on it for a while and see what they want to do. I’d like to make a decision before the lottery in January.
Thanks once again for all your help. I might have a couple more questions later after they think on this a while, if you don’t mind. If you ever decide to come down here for Gauley Season/Bridge Day, feel free to email me.
Mudro
– Last Updated: Nov-04-04 12:29 AM EST –
That would be a fine loop. One of the big plusses of going in Mudro is that Chainsaw Sisters is right there if a beer at the end of your trip would be appealing.
That route sounds good. The first couple portages north out of Mudro aren't the best to gain your portaging feet on as they're a little rocky and rough. I might suggest going east to Sandpit lake and then north through Tin Can Mike lake to Horse and the Horse River.
As far as direction goes, I would suggest going counter-clockwise. That way you would be going downstream on both the Horse and the Moosecamp rivers. If water is low and you would have to line your canoe through some small rapids, that would be much easier going downstream.
Once you get up to Crooked, I highly suggest making a trip over to Curtain falls. If the water is high, it is simply incredible. If it isn't, it's still a great place to stop for lunch.
As I don't have my own canoe - or a car for that matter - I don't know that I'll be paddling as regularly as I would like and so I may not be checking these boards regularly after the novelty wears off. Once your trip gets closer and if you have any questions, feel free to email me at aaronlolson@yahoo.com
Thanks, Aaron (eom)
Moose Lake - Lake One
I have done the Lake One to Moose Lake trip with a boy scout troop twice. I have used Canadian Border Outfitters (CBO)three times. They are located on Moose Lake. My suggestion would be to use an outfitter (CBO) on Moose Lake and have them shuttle you to Lake One to start your trip. The shuttle cost is about $15. My first trip on this loop took us 5 days at a decent pace. The second time I did this loop in 6 days. We spent two nights at a campsite on Insula Lake (north end) and took a day paddle over to see some indian pictographs at Fishdance Lake. By ending at Moose Lake you finish at the outfitters and can choose your own arrival time and not feel pressured to meet them at a specific time.