BWCA vs. Northeast Destinations

The Adirondacks are really beautiful
and hold some 200 miles of the Northern Forest Canoe Trail. But that is linear and involve crossing some lakes that have cottages and powerboats.



There are rugged loops though. I keep thinking ( and NOT doing the 55 mile long Little Tupper- Lows loop} but its got twenty portages.



The Daks offer a multitude of short trips…four or five days… in the St Regis Canoe Area wilderness.





Let me throw another big canoe area into the mix.



Its similar to the BWCA with moose and a healthy wolf population.



Algonquin Provincial Park. Five to nine hours north of Buffalo. Its just a tiny bit smaller than the BWCA and for Easterners a whole lot closer. It too in July and August can be busy. Blackflies do alot to keep tripping down in June in both Maine and Ontario.



Anyway Algonquin has a reservation system too.But you can often just walk in and get a permit. Also you canoe does not need to be registered in Ontario, Maine or NY and it does in MN. Perhaps a minor point but one less thing to hassle with…you can get your MN registration online.

Canadian Shield
country runs generally from western Canada through northern Minnesota, Lake Superior, Lake Huron and on east through Maine. The appearance of the country is similar though certain areas have their distinct natural characteristics and regional population densities. I think WW and Pyker have described the BWCA well.



The permit system is on-line. (http://www.recreation.gov/permitCalendar.do?page=calendar&calarvdate=06/29/2010&contractCode=NRSO&parkId=72600) Certain entry points have a lottery system for initital assignment but after the lottery is run o/a 20Jan12 the remaining permits are available on a first come basis on-line in addition to all non-lottery permits.



I get my permit just shortly before I leave home. You pick them up at an outfitter or ranger station on the day you enter. You can monitor the remaining permits available for each entry point on-line. If there are none available then that area is too crowded for me. :slight_smile: Times to avoid are fishing opener the second weekend in May and the time between the 4th of July and Labor Day.



A good resource for planning is “Exploring the Boundary Waters” (A Trip Planner and Guide to the BWCAW) by Daniel Pauly. Its a good winter read even if you don’t go. An overview map of BWCA/Quetico is handy too. (http://www.bwcamaps.com/overviewmaps.htm)



Some of the entry points northeast of Ely are within 5 to 10 paddling miles of the south central entry point into the Quetico if you’re headed to that area. I don’t know about the Canadian permit system though.



So as with all things paddling, its all good - just different. So much water so little time. Frank

Touchy
The OP mentioned topography as being one factor in his decision, though distance seemed to be more important.



Nobody insulted the BWCA over this question. It’s just something that might throw off someone who’s used to having defined visual refererence(s) all around. I don’t know if the OP is in this category.

Can happen in non-wilderness areas
A few weeks ago while walking uphill from home–up a dirt road–I noticed that the air had gone completely still. No machine/car noise, no wind noise, not even animal sounds. Usually the house with many goats and llamas puts out some nice baaahs. Even they were silent, as were all the neighborhood dogs.



It felt so strange that I told my husband about it. For one moment a flashback came to me from one of those after-the-disaster movies, in which one person is left all alone.



I’m not complaining about the silence. But it made me acutely aware of how, even in a relatively quiet area, there are almost always background sounds.

BWCA
The BWCA is worth it. If you want elevation plan your trip on the eastern side. While, it’s not like the mountains in Maine, you’ll have plenty to look at.

mountains
in the Adks are even more impressive than Maine – it’s just as much a hiking/climbing/skiing paradise as it is paddling. Looking down on all those lakes from 3000-4000 ft puts an amazing perspective on where you’ve been in your boat.

WW was just providing context
All of the prior answers were from eastcoasters, some of whom haven’t been to BWCA. And he’s right, an impression of “crowded” based on one visit is a bit subjective.

That’s cool
Since I have never been to BWCA, I don’t know if it’s pancake flat or if it just doesn’t have a lot of clues on the horizon. They might also be obscured by dense trees nearby.



I used to laugh when people called Massachusetts the flatlands, because in most parts of it there are definitely hills, or even mountains, to provide directional clues. They don’t have to be jagged high-altitude peaks to do that. But in the absence of all such clues, I get disoriented. And from what I’ve heard, I am not alone in that.

No skiing today!
And I live in Maine and yes its impressive looking down from “hills” around here…ranging from 1100 feet across from my house to on top of Mt Washington looking on Long Lake and Sebago.



Um no mountains today.Its a sheet of ice all around.



In the Adirondacks a nice hike that you can canoe to trailhead is St Regis Mountain. Another is Mt Frederica on Lake Lila. Another is Cat Mountain near Cranberry Lake.





When are we the peanut gallery going to learn the winning destination?

There are more of course. Thats what I can think of offhand that I have done.

Be glad we cannot pick a winner
And I don’t mean just this thread.



Think how crowded the winning place would be if there were only one winner. Or two or three.



Different strokes for different folks, alright. That’s a good thing.

I like kayamedic’s view
We like to go places that are different. Different than where we’ve been or where we live.



The funny thing about that for me is that some of these places still draw me with their familiarity.

absolutely
Besides, I’ve never been to either place (I’ve been to nearby regions), and this thread and the descriptions are generating some great imagery in my mind of these places.

No “Touchiness” Intended
Just trying to get my point across, no offense intended. I TOO figured MN and the BWCAW was “Flat as a pancake” until my first trip in '84. In fact, I was surprised that the eastern side had terrain much like my native Ozarks. Here’s a couple recent pics for examples:

http://www.pbase.com/ozarkpaddler/image/113174710

http://www.pbase.com/ozarkpaddler/image/137342545

http://www.pbase.com/ozarkpaddler/image/113159631

Love the Allagash Trip
I have done a lot of tripping in places far “wilder” but I have to say the I have a soft spot in my heart for the Allagash trip - Chamberlain to Allagash Village. I like it because it involves a combination of lake and river travel and few portages. If you time it right you can sleep on a lake or pond with the loons most nights. June will generally involve bugs. I have never been in worse. Not even the Northwest territories. But over the years you do get used to it. Late May is great. Fall can be very nice. Summer often the water levels are too low on the river for my taste. I really do love the Allagash.

Related comments

– Last Updated: Dec-21-11 10:26 PM EST –

I went backpacking in the BWCA way back in 1981. We hiked on a long trail which at the time was "closed" because the Forest Service couldn't afford to keep it open. We saw ONE other person in 7 days of hiking. Nowadays, the trail is maintained by a private club, and is so popular for backpacking that you need to reserve a permit long in advance of your intended visit. Topography? The trail was pretty tough walking at times. The uphill grinds weren't Rocky Mountain stuff, but strenuous. The interesting thing is that there were only about three places in 40 miles where there was actually a "view". Most of the time was in thick woods. When we camped, we'd encounter a lake and follow the shoreline until we found a canoe campsite. While following some high ground alongside one lake, I got a surprise while plowing through some really thick brush. I was near a cliff edge at the lake shore - I could see the "sudden empty (tree-less) space" off in that direction - but I figured on following that cliff until the ground dropped back to lake level. Well, suddenly I found myself a step-and-a-half away from a sheer 70- or maybe even 90-foot-deep canyon which was very narrow. The canyon joined the lake, and the floor was at lake level. I was leading the way, and I detoured "way back" into the woods from the lake to avoid encountering some other part of that same canyon during our search for a low-lying campsite on shore. The brush was so thick I often couldn't see 7 feet in front of me and that sudden void in front of me kinda shook me up a bit.

I went to graduate school in Iowa, and one of my coworkers there was an Iowa boy through and through. He took a vacation to the Rockies in Colorado, and when he came back he described a vague feeling of claustrophobia which hung over him the whole time he was in the mountains. He said that on the drive home, when finally reaching the edge of the foothills and seeing that flat plain (the eastern half of Colorado is the flattest place I've ever seen, so I know what he was talking about), he actually breathed a sigh of relief. I had no clue that someone's view of what makes "attractive topography" could be so skewed by growing up amid the cornfields of Iowa! It wasn't just him. He said his wife (also born and raised in Iowa) agreed with him completely.

One last thought LOL

– Last Updated: Dec-21-11 10:51 PM EST –

ya think?

None of the Eastern destinations have fire as an important player in their ecosystems.

Boundary Waters had a huge fire last fall. If fire recovery interests you, it might be well worth the drive to see how the vegetation recovers. Some regard fire as destruction but when I visited Yellowstone after its major fire some two decades ago I just marveled at how life came back.

But rpgs post reminds me how much I like to visit the old locomotives on Eagle Lake and trace the old railway with the old rotting log cars and old switches and railway wheels being reclaimed by the woods and walk the tracks back to the old trestle crossing Chamberlain. Ranger Tom Coon at Chamberlain Bridge is a fountain of information. He told us over soup and lunch on a wintery day of the snowmobile volunteers that righted the engines onto their tracks in the middlle of winter.

Thanks Acre for reminding me of the web cam on Chesuncook. That bi.. of a lake is my favorite! She still looks lovely! Oddly enough within four hours of my house..in summer. Another world in winter.

Flatness again

– Last Updated: Dec-22-11 7:25 PM EST –

The eastern plains of CO are pretty flat, but they actually have a very slight incline and there are some low hills. I thought they were perfectly flat, too, but then...I drove through the panhandle country (Oklahoma, northern TX) on my way to the south TX beaches. Holy crap. On my way back, I breathed a sigh of relief (no pun intended) when I finally saw exactly one low butte arise out of nowhere.

Good thing your Iowa buddy didn't go to canyon country! Some canyons can make me feel slightly claustrophobic if I'm at the bottom. Up on top, it's a whole different view and feel. Same for lots of mountains around, very close. They can feel like you're being walled in. Heck, I *live* in this kind of setting and when the walls of piled-up snow grow high (as they are doing now), it almost feels like something is about to squeeze us. It certainly squeezes out the sunlight. The sun sets behind the ridge at just after 2 pm now.

It's good to visit all of these different things. I really enjoyed my time in FL and GA. But for the first time it dawned on me that I could get really lost either among mangroves or inside the twisty narrow sloughs near Tybee. The best devices for figuring your location in those turned out to be an aerial photo map and a good memory.

Really Flat

– Last Updated: Dec-22-11 10:37 PM EST –

One of my other graduate-school co-workers interviewed for a job (as a professor) at some university in Texas. I don't recall which university, so naturally I can't remember where it was, but apparently that particular area in Texas takes the cake for being flat. Could be it was the same area you just mentioned. The locals there have a saying, "If you stand on a sardine can, you can see all the way to Abilene."

Regarding the use of aerial photos for navigation, I've done that on winding backwater channels on the Mississippi, and on a small river near here upstream of where it enters of flowage. Near the flowage, all the ancient river beds are flooded and largely interconnected. It can be quite a maze. Makes me think about what it must be like to navigate a really big area with such channels, like a southern swamp. Yes, there's a lot of variety out there, and it's all worth visiting.

Eastern CO

– Last Updated: Dec-23-11 12:07 AM EST –

Lived in Ft. Morgan and it LOOKS flat, but a lot of gullies, washes, and small hills. I was shooting video of some antelope running one time and they unexpectedly disappeared into a ravine where it looked like a flat horizon line. It was kind of funny, 'cause I they disappeared so quickly and unexpectedly.