They’re all sweep strokes
At least that’s how I think of it: Every forward stroke in a canoe is, categorically, a “sweep” stroke of some sort. It’s just that some strokes sweep more than others.
Not long ago, I started to have physical difficulty executing the traditional “J-stroke” I learned as a boy. What I’ve been trying to do over the last several years is to accomplish the needed CORRECTION by emphasizing an adjustment to the paddle blade’s angle rather than its direction.
I begin a standard forward stroke slowly - gently - so as to avoid losing efficiency by causing turbulence. (In the language of fluid dynamics, I’m trying to retain “laminar” flow around the paddle.) As I execute the stroke, I gradually adjust the blade’s angle so that the “powerface” is directed increasingly AWAY from the boat.
When done correctly, the paddle retains a fixed distance from the boat’s centerline even as the angled blade executes the needed “correction”. Suffice to say, this is easier said than done. But like all good things it can, with practice, be quite effective while minimizing physical wear-and-tear.
Paddle length/type
I’ve been using a 54-inch bending branches beavertail. it works pretty well. I know I the design of the blade for CS paddling. I’m 6’1" with a medium to longer torso and arms. Should I go to 57 or 60 even?
Thanks.
Deb and Rolf Kraiker are CS
gurus…and its been explained to me by Paddle Canada instructor trainers that if you can pass the paddle through the pivot point the boat will not turn…
Such as in a draw to the hip…the whole boat moves sideways.
IF the paddle passes under the boat directly below you there is no correction needed as it goes through the pivot point… Imagine you cutting a hole below you in the boat… and following the keel lineIn a narrow dedicated solo you wouldnt need to J! In a boat heeled over you (PP) are close to the side and passing the paddle (remember long ottertail…dont try this with a FreeStyle paddle!) under minimizes corrections. It wont eliminate them entirely(because your stroke is going to start beside the boat) but most of the need to correct is gone.
Plain as mud, right? Go try it!
True enough…
I've aspired to this method many a time and in fact an under hull component is now part of my current forward. But, as you point out the stroke does not initiate on the CL but beside the hull, thus by the time it reaches the CL has already started defining an arc which crosses the CL, rather than continuously parallelling the CL. In other words there is a bit of a bow draw correction at the beginning of the stroke and stern pushaway at the end. This is a stroke which the blade goes through the PP but is an arc in the opposite direction of and actually offseting the natural pivot. It gives the impression of a stroke w/o correction but actually is not. In our theoritical stroke example, the blade would have to begin acrossing and perpendicular to the CL and the entire paddle move straight astern, then withdrawn without further influence. That would be a true forward with no correction what-so-ever. Confused yet?
wrong skillset
Heavily loaded, lots of rocks, need to maneuver.
That calls for a pole.
While any paddle will work well
if you really get into CS you need just a long enough shaft to reach the water…and the blade can be long.
I use a 26 inch long shaft. Blade is 29 inches long. Ottertail.
If you use a standard shaft length paddle (mass produced), I would bet that going longer is just going to immerse the shaft too deep and you wont get any results other than turbulence.
ottertail
better for CS than a beavertail?
without getting in to "Better"
its just easier to get under the boat with an ottertail thats really long…
Thats why there are so many paddles…
CS is the basis for Omering but not the same. Omering is some big moves that a wide blade paddle would work ok on, if your joints can stand the stress of a very large mass boat reacting to your paddle.
CS is based on fine moves with quick paddle movements. An example would be a dock turn with a no yaw stop. The start is a hard J (a big move) slice to a hanging bow draw (another big move) then to a sideslip (small move) to get within one inch of the dock alongside; thence to a stop (small move) then up and down the boat to adjust the ends so they are parallel.
There might be eight or ten paddle movements in eight to ten seconds with a couple of palm rolls… Narrower paddles are easier to make these adjustments with.
expertise?
Just a word… Kayakmedic is a very experienced CS paddler who often gives expert demos at my symposium and many others. I will alwys defer to her judgement about CS and yes an ottertail paddle is used by many of the best CS paddlers. It looks unlikey and I swear there must be some smoke and mirrors involved but its true. The one that always floors me is the “standing pry”. It is a spin move in which the paddler holds the ottertail vertical next to the rail and with one hand and with just a little movement makes that big tandem spin on it’s own axis. Its a great demonstration of how exact technique can produce desired result with just a minimum of effort.
Why Canadian
Lots of discussion here, and it is very interesting to me since I have just been playing around with under water paddle retrieval, but I think a couple points are missing:
- Some boats turn when heeled over. On some boats, the turn is towards the paddle/heeled side and corrects the direction of travel, reducing or eliminating the need for correction. That’s a real bonus and advantage to heeling the boat.
- An underwater retrieval prevents you from having to lift the paddle. If your paddle is 14 oz., retrieval isn’t that big a deal, but if you are paddling with a multi-pound stick, not having to lift it saves considerable effort over the course of a day. Longer blades, such as are typical in Canadian, also have to be picked up higher than a short, wide blade, to get the blade out of the water. So it is not surprising Canadian and long, thin blades are often used by the same paddlers.
I am finding I am not as fast with the underwater retrieve, but it is easy and I can comfortably paddle longer if I leave the paddle in the water. I also played around with correction strokes in the retrieve. I am not consistently good at it, but angling the blade slightly away from the boat on the retrieve, then pulling it back to normal starting position produces correction near the bow that feels, to me, more efficient than correction at the end of the stroke.
BTW, I’m paddling from near the center of the normally tandem boat.
~~Chip
In CS its always heel to the paddle side
heeling it away in a tandem boat means you cant reach the water across the boat unless you have really long arms.
If you are talking about FreeStyle…most boats turn quicker heeled away from the direction of the turn…but thats not CS. CS is for boats in which cross strokes are not possible without moving your whole body…ie tandems.
That said chine shape does play some part…In CS pries work much better than draws do…in general. Usually its the other way around for unheeled boats.
But boats differ in how they respond
What I am saying is that boats differ in how they respond when heeled. Flatter boats tend to carve in the same arc as the side of the hull on the heeled side, meaning it turns away from the paddle side. Boats with more rocker tend to carve the arc of the rocker, meaning they will turn toward the paddle side.
And I think there is a third hull shape that responds to the bow wave more than carving the side or the rocker. Some hulls seem to build up a wave under the high side of the hull, and the hull is constantly sliding off or away from the wave, meaning the boat turns to the paddle side.
If you can get the boat to turn to the paddle side, then the boat is doing the correction for you, and you can put all the paddle power into moving forward. So, all I was saying is that letting the hull do the steering is another reason to paddle CStyle
These are my impressions from playing around with leaning different boats. I find it confusing, because, as describeded, the results are inconsistent across boats. What I wrote above is my effort at explaining how come different results occur when I think I am applying the same technique. Of course, I’m a rather inexperienced and unskilled canoeist and it could just be me. But I hope not. I’m trying.
~~Chip
But turns are initiated from the stern
Watch any CS video and every turn is initiated from the stern, or trailing end of the canoe… Initiations are either sweeps, uncorrected forwards and hard Js.
Otherwise I havent paddled all shapes of boats…but I have CS maybe a hundred different ones…and the differences are a matter of degree.
I am not disagreeing with you…as some boats are “sweet” and others a dog…so you might have something going there.
I find the Explorer for example a relative “dog” and a NorthStar sweet. That most likely is due to the hull shape of the side and the new “keel” that might emerge in a harder chined boat.
interesting…
Hi Chip :
I agree and disagree with your contentions. Canoes are pretty much the same basic object and differ only in the degree of curvature of various design aspects. That means that any canoe when traveling perfectly straight, when heeled, will create a footprint with a differential shape that will cause it to turn to the side away from the heeled side. IOW, a straight moving hull when heeled to the right, all other aspects being equal will turn to the left. Having said that, a heel will decrease the wetted surface area and waterline length so aids a turn in either direction, once that turn is already initiated. The rub with WW canoes is that “perfectly straight” thing. Its very difficult to get one of those puppies going truly straight. Even when we feel they are going straight, they usually aren’t. In order to get a WW canoe going straight we usually do a forward stroke with a thumb up ( sometimes thumb down ) pry. That offsets the yaw created by the forward stroke and turns the canoe back toward the paddled side. Problem is, especially symmetrically heavily rockered canoes tend to keep turning even if ever so slightly and when the heel aids the turn which is initiated by the pry correction. This is a good thing in WW as the heel tends to lock the onside turn in place and offset the yaw which happens with the next forward stroke, which mitigates the need for correcting pries and results in better speed. This is known as “paddling the inside circle”. This does not necessarily apply to tandem canoes padddled solo as in Canadian Style paddling sice these hulls have a standing heel and the footprint does not change.
I know this will seem like nit picking to some, especially kayakers, but the statement that some canoes will automatically turn to the heeled side is IMO not correct and could cause difficulties for some paddlers. At any rate, it is good to have knowledge of how heeling can mitigate corrective pries. My $0.02 worth. Take it or leave it.
Chip do you remember what
boats gave you what experience?
Interesting thoughts… if some of us still on this discussion could replicate your experiences it would be neat.
some boats
I can’t figure out whether my Kanu Latveja is supposed to be a kayak or a decked canoe. But it has three steering properties. Lean it a little, you get a little kayak-type turning. Lean it further, and it carves TO the leaned side, I think because the boat has some rocker along it’s flat bottom. Lean it to the hull seams and it turns away from the lean, like you’d expect it.
My MR Fantasy used to turn to the leaned side, and I thought that was because of the bow-wave, but it could have been due to rocker.
My Dagger Encore carves the rocker–turns toward the heeled side.
I always leaned the OT Tripper to the side I was turning.
We had a thread on here last winter where I was stating I couldn’t get the MR Explorer hull to carve like a normal canoe, and by that I meant turn to the leaned side. Appears, I based my expectation on rockered boats and it is most common for canoes to carve the edge, like the MRE does, and as described by other posters herein.
~~Chip
Agree
I used to initiate turns at the bow most of the time. I really like cross-draws! I took some instruction and now I know that I’m always supposed to start turning strokes at the stern. That’s the right way, but by no means the only way!
How’d the MRE get so popular? So many paddlers love those boats, but you and I agree. Dog.
~~Chip
skeptical squint
Most of the boats depicted in old art are huge by modern standards and loaded high with furs, gear and passengers. This is not easy in a boat designed to be paddled thus let alone a really big canoe. It is tough to do in my 17’4" tandem for more than a few minutes. I cannot fathom crossing a lake whose far shore I cannot see while in a boat for five with a year’s bounty of trapping and my full kit. Sorry I don’t buy your scenario. Now before you blast me with flames just direct me where to look for supporting historical documents. A sketch, a written description, anything at all. I’ll promptly apologize and change my view.
Of your list I ve only paddled
the Explorer and while it does CS solo it is not a bright bulb.
Its sluggish either way and I am guessing that its because its got relatively hardish chines relative to other boats I have meddled in.
When you have the boat heeled on its side with the stems out, rocker as measured normally with flat boat(and THATs a topic for its own thread..how do you measure rocker) goes out the door. The shape in the water of the hull is commonly like a cross section of an airplane wing...but chines need to be considered because they are the new "keel". If you have a flat bottomed WW boat with hard chines (one designed to play flat) that "keel" has to have a lot of impact.. and the more the fullness of the side carries on that keel is your new rocker..
To add to the mud.. CS was developed for touring tandems..and its the only way to solo big no rocker Wenonahs. Minnesota II Canadian solos quite well if you can avoid being blown away.
Hope to see this thread up there when I get back..off to Arkansas and the Buffalo..I am praying for rain..and no banjo music in the woods..)just kidding..this will be my fourth trip on the Buffalo and looks like the first at less than "barely open because of flood" water levels.