cane vs woven webbing
I find cane seats a bit more comfortable but not decisively so. I think cane is a bit more esthetic.
I have found that cane seats last a good long time, but not as long as seats with woven tubular nylon webbing.
I often take seat frames from cane seats on which the cane has given out and make them into woven, webbed seats using 1 1/2" or 2" wide tubular nylon webbing. If the frames are symmetrical, you can turn the frames upside down to hide the rout used to bed the cane, and use stainless steel wood screws and washers to anchor the webbing strips on the inside portion of the frame underneath the strips.
What kind of webbing did MR use?
My Malecite has cane seats on the ends and a webbing seat in the center. It’s the nicest webbing I’ve ever seen. It’s wide, thin and tight as a drum. It dries very quickly.
Anybody know what it was?
Same on my Ed’s contour.
Very thin and stays nice 'n taut. I think they’ll sell you some if you call.
Yea, that looks like the stuff
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-61200424364131_2088_7221198
I’ll keep that in mind when I need new seats. But I don’t think I could get it as tight as Ed probably does. I’ll probably just spring for the seats.
Both have their good/bad points
So it’s a matter of preference - or whatever is on the boat you find a good deal on. Nothing is prettier than the boot-lace webbing used by Merrimack and Navarro on their seats though, IMO. And nothing is more practical than the cord webbing system that Nova Craft uses (and it ain’t bad lookin’ either). Either of those can be done in a typical home shop. And there’s other ways to use poly cord for webbing which will give you a nearly indestructible, dry, and comfortable seat - but I promised not to tell…
funny no one mentioned babiche
seats now that we have wandered off.
Halfway down this page…made of caribou
http://www.tendercraftboats.com/fittings.html
whole bunch of other interesting stuff on that page.
Touched a raw nerve with me.
– Last Updated: Apr-19-10 3:20 PM EST –
I have been dabbbling with seats for a couple of years now, and have the perspective of a "big guy" in all of my opinions.
I have used caned seats in my old MR Explorer. Worked well enough, but the typical sharp edge on the inside of the seat frame was uncomfortable (Eds and Essex - you paying attention?).
For an oversized (basically double-length) "hammock" seat I used 3/32" polyester cord and "half-caned" the frame, that is I did not lace the diagonals. Still took me an average of 6 hours over the course of two prototypes to do the lacing. Learn as you go!
I am now testing a frame from Eds that has turned out to be extremely comfy. I had them make a wide seat with curved members and 16" C-to-C mounting to which I added 1" polyester (not polypro) web tensioned with 3/32" poly cord. Rather than try to get the seat drum tight I left slack, or droop in the web. It forms a bucket and is very comfortable with no additional padding. I have not gotten the web wet, but it will take a while to dry.
I can understand why Eds and Essex stretch their web tightly - the nylon absorbs moisture and stretches. Polyester web does not stretch as much as nylon, but costs about twice as much per foot.
If I get motivated this summer I will lace the frame fully with 1/16" nylon. I am thinking that sag is a good thing for flatwater touring.
Jim
http://www.grovestreet.com/PicPage.do?id=1303639
Looks like Merrimack…
…only with more traditional material. Beautiful! But I don’t understand why one would resort to doweled joints on such a nice seat. That wouldn’t stop me from buying one if I couldn’t make my own though!
Good supply source - thanks for the link!
I like Polypro Webbing
I think it holds up better.
Gotta laugh about the folks complaining of wet seats.
Never noticed much difference between my web and cane seats that way.
But then when I go boating things get wet pretty quickly.
Steve,
the joints of Ed’s seats are doweled, at least the contoured ones in ash. About 5/16" if my eye is good, two per joint. I had assumed that they were mortised, but I dissected one and was surprised.
Jim
oiling webbing question
I think that cane seats look better in a boat with significant wood.
I have webbing seats on my canoes, the canoes are at least 15 years old and the webbing is fine. I would like to oil the wood frame, but I fear that I would make a mess of the webbing. Maybe someone has a suggestion here.
If the seats were cane I would just go ahead and oil the wood and caning; so that is an advantage of cane.
Only time I ever notice a wet seat
… is first thing in the morning after a rain.
I like to start the day getting wet at the other end, with the ever futile “face brace”
Doweling is easier and faster.
I can understand the reasoning if it is strong enough. Not hearing any complaints about the joints in Ed’s seats, I suppose it’s strong enough. I did the seat frames in the Beater Penobscot that way for expediency, and they do seem to be holding up fine so far. OTOH - part of the reason I re-did the seat frames was that the doweled joints in the original seats had failed. To be fair though - that boat saw a lot of abuse.
But now that I own a mortising tool, future seat frames done by me will be mortised. As a woodworker, I just have more faith in a mortised joint. and if I’m going to make a really nice seat, I don’t want any risk of a joint failing.
Me too.
I’m usually wetter than the seat anyway…
Jim
that is one fine looking seat set up. The webbing looks very nice and I like the teflon slides. Your backrest looks very comfortable too.
Cane
That’s my opinion. Seems to drain and dry quicker. Don’t know what people do to tear up their cane seats in less than a couple decades, I’ve never had one fail. Ed’s are comfortable as are Bell’s. They seem to have a smoother, more tapered front edge. Mike, I have 6 seats in the barn, I’m sure one would fit. WW
dowels
Old Town used dowelled joints on about a quarter of a million wood and canvas canoes, so I guess that is about a half a million seats, or 1 million joints.
Dowels vs mortises
Yep. We can debate theory over beers at a campfire, but long-term experience usually trumps the day. I imagine that doweling is much less labor-intensive with apparently no real-world downside.
But if you ask me MY preference…
Jim
I prefer cane…
– Last Updated: Apr-21-10 8:06 AM EST –
but preferring cane because it looks better is not why i retrofitted my original cane seats with black webbing. i do think the cane looks better, but the black webbing don't look bad either and was very cheap and relatively easy to do. it is almost two years old now, but here is the thread i started to find out what material works best for the do-it-yourselfer. very knowledgeable paddlers here:
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=996223
after trips, the straps do sag a wee bit but they have returned to their very VERY taut setting now that a couple of fat boys ain't sitting on it.
cane or straps? to each, their own.
jeremy
Seat on the way
Have one coming frome belll replaceing the seat mounts to (all wood and cane) after seeing the seat on a yellowstone a while back i like the look it gives and is comfy to.