The old back-support issue
Okay, I’ll be the first to point out that for a lot of us, the best way to completely eliminate back problems is to paddle from a kneeling position. A few people can’t kneel, but most people who think they need a back rest to solve their problems have never even tried kneeling. Having a back rest is actually one of the best ways to limit yourself to just “going along for the ride”. It all depends on what you are looking for. For some people, half the fun of canoeing is being able to use your boat to its potential, and back rests aren’t the way to make that possible.
Novacraft Prospector 17
Dear numb,
I managed to pick up a used Novacraft Prospector 17 this summer for $ 200.00. It’s made out of SP3 poly and it’s heavy at 88 pounds, but I don’t find that na issue. I’m 6’ 5" and 330 pounds and my fiancee is less than half my size but with her in the bow seat the canoe is trimmed halfway decent and it’s a pleasure to paddle around local lakes and rivers.
That particular Novacraft model is available in several different materials and it will hold you and your buddy and your gear and maybe 1/2 a moose if you need it to do that. It holds 1200 pounds according to the specs and the specs aren’t exaggerated in the least.
Eventhough the canoe is 88 pounds I can carry it around with no trouble and I’m 52 years old. I have an Old Town Discovery 13 which is 4 feet shorter and on paper 4 pounds heavier, but compared to the Novacraft it seems like it’s easily 20 to 30 pounds heavier. I’d much rather launch and recover the Prospector.
I’m far from an experienced canoeist so the only advice I’ll offer to you is shop around and find a clean and serviceable used canoe to get started. If you find that you enjoy canoeing and fishing out of your canoe and you bought right you’ll be able to sell your starter canoe and put the money towards a better boat once you know more about what you want.
Regards,
Tim Murphy AKA Goobs
is this a good buy
All,
i an looking at a old town 174 it wieght is 80 plus lb and has a capacity of 1200 lbs, 400.00 bucks i believe it is 10yrs old . what do ya think? I am wanting it for Isle Royale will do a few very short portage’s me and my brother-in-law are 580 lb. plus another 125 lb of gear.Is this the right canoe for the money???
Thanks bill
I would buy it in a second
that is providing it’s in good shape. I have two disco 169 and love them.
If it came down to OT Disco’s
– Last Updated: Feb-18-12 5:40 PM EST –
I wouldn't paddle. They weight way more than catalog weight, are soft in the bottom and shaped to stack, not shed waves.
Steel metal canoes cannot be made with compound curves, hence are slugs through the water and they are heavy. And they often have float tanks where we'd like to pick them up for a double carry. If $300 is the limit, get the Grumman, but it's far from a terminal boat.
ABS hulls are lighter, but still heavy, still soft and still slow.
Consider a used composite hull: Bell Northwind or Woods, Swift Winisk, Prospector 17 or Temagami, or Wenonah Champlain Itasca or Seneca. All are seakindly, which seems an important criteria and will step right along, ie paddle efficiently.
Composite is stiffer and thereby faster in the water and lighter overhead on portage. Hulls designed by guys with names generally work better than generic ones. Buying used should cut the price 1/2 to 2/3.
Go Grumman
Poly boats are basically disposable. I know some folks love them because they are really tough, but eventually, they fuzz on the bottom, crack in the stems if hit, and get wavy/soft on the bottom just from regular use. Then, they are nigh on impossible to repair. So, $1000 for a poly boat that lasts 10 years isn’t such a bad deal, but $1500 for a Royalex boat that lasts 30 years is a better deal.
In that sense, aluminum is a great value, as are most composites.
The Discos and SP3 poly boats are generally acceptable shapes, being made by reputable canoe companies, but they would not be my choice. If I only had $500, I’d find an old composite or Royalex boat and repair it, or buy aluminum.
That said, I like all canoes, except Coleman/Pelican. As far as I can tell, there are none worse.
Old Town 174 vs 18’Grumman
Both of these will take you and an XL sized buddy anywhere. The Grumman will last into the next century and you will be able to sell it for more than you paid for it. The Old Town 174 is a big capacity hull that paddles better than the Tripper or 169 which is essentially the same hull in Polyethylene. It has been made in several incarnations with cane seats, rotomolded plastic bucket seats with floatation, and web seats. It has two main drawbacks; Weight and oilcanning. 80# is optimistic, 85-88 is realistic. The oilcanning issue is not always present. Two light paddlers and no load will probably not see any oil canning. Two big 200# plus paddlers and no load will see it. Two big paddlers with a load sitting on the bottom of the hull will probably see only slight oil canning in waves. It is not a problem for the canoe and only a slight distraction for the paddlers.
As far as paddling ease, the 174 is sleeker in the bow and has a smoother hull (no projecting rivets or keel). The Grumman is fuller in the bow and will rise over waves slightly better. It will turn slightly better. In the open water the Old Town will be faster, easier to push into a wind, and easier to keep on a straight course. There will not be a huge difference with a load, but if you paddled each for an hour in the same conditions you would see the difference.
No matter which one you were to buy, get a really good portage yoke installed. The Grumman factory yoke clamps onto the center thwart and has two nice pads. It will make the canoe feel 20# lighter and give you much better control of the canoe overhead. There are a number of aftermarket yokes that can be installed in the Old Town with good non-slip pads to cushion your shoulders and keep the canoe from slipping off your shoulders. The laminated Wenonah yoke with curved pads is about the strongest and is very comfortable. I regularly carry a 23’ Minnesota IV with one.
Start with either one and watch for an end of season special from an outfitter on a Wenonah Champlain or Seneca in a lighter layup. You will know after a season with a Grumman or Old Town 174 the value of a lighter canoe.
Bill
Two guys in their late 40’s.
I’d think they can afford ANY canoe.
True but
the good old Old Town Tripper is just about the perfect rugged tripping boat for many many trips where light weight is not all that important.
this is what we got it down to
what is the better buy:
old town canoe penobscot 186 $400.00 seen on craigslist looks to be in good shape OR
Wenonah Spirit II 17ft - $750.00 found also on craigslist looks to be in good shape
The 186 has been sold to me
– Last Updated: Mar-07-12 1:24 AM EST –
So take that off your list. The 186 will be used by my dad and I, a combined 600lbs. If it feels solid under way on lakes and larger rivers then it will be a keeper. If not it will be back up for sale in a couple of months. I had both a late 90's Wenonah 17ft Royalex Sundowner and Spirit II. With 500lbs or more they just felt floppy and rubbery.
My very first canoe was a like new OT 174 and I still wish I had it today because it felt very solid under my feet. Another canoe I sold was an early 90's Wenonah Jensen17 in tuffweave that was very solid as well. If I had more cash and longer boats were easier to find I would not have bought the 186 because what the others have posted about buying a FG or composite boat are dead on. If you are patient a 17ft tuffweave wenonah are for sale pretty frequently.
Brian
GO BIG
I’m biased but I love my Old Town Penobscot. I’d get the biggest one possible and do it in royalex. It’s super stable on the lake and on the River and can handle up to class two. Good initial and secondary stability.
from somewhere on Colorado’s Continental Divide…
fotomatt
17’ prospector
I’m also a big guy (6’4". 300 lbs) and I use my nova craft 17’ prospector tandem and solo. It’s great if you have some moving water and tandem it isn’t bad on the flat stuff. The carrying capacity is wonderful, I did an over night with a friend about my size, and my dog. 600 lbs of people, 85 lbs of dog and about 150 lbs of gear and we stil ran class II+ rapids.
It’s also great for beginners, I’ve been paddling just under a year and my friend doesn’t paddle regularly. The royalex version is a bit heavy at 86 lbs, but the yoke makes an easy carry.
Scott