Same thing when I went to scout
camp years ago. First day, everyone got in the lake and had to swim back and forth a few times, then we had to tread water a few minutes, then float on our back. For this you got a “swimmer” token that let you get out on the canoes and rowboats without an adult.
Seems like common sense and a pretty minimal requirement IMO. If there is no time limit, a sidestroke or backstroke will make it much easier on you. I did a mile swim that way a couple of times – not speedy, but you can go forever.
jim
Adults on canoe trips
– Last Updated: Mar-09-09 2:25 PM EST –
I think it is great that the scout troop works canoeing into many of its outdoor outings. My son's troop has done a little, and I'm hoping to encourage more of it more this summer.
As far as the scouts go, it is a Boy Scout requirement that they have passed their swimmer's test (the one you describe) to go on any type of canoe trip. There is no national BSA requirement that adults be swimmers, but that doesn't prevent individual troops, councils, or camps from making it a requirement.
As far as my personal opinion (since you ask).... First, I agree completely that all of the scouts should be swimmers -- as an adult leader I'm responsible for them and they need to be comfortable in the water. I don't see a need to require an adult in each canoe -- there is no reason scouts can't canoe together as long as there is sufficient adult supervision. I believe the BSA requirement is 1 adult for every 10 scouts (minimum 2 adults overall). However, I don't necessarily agree with the fact that all of the adults also need to pass the swimmers test. Should they be comfortable in the water with their life jacket on, absolutely. I'm just not too sure how important it is to be able to swim 100 yards without a life jacket when you're out there canoeing.
Boy Scouts
– Last Updated: Mar-09-09 4:21 PM EST –
I worked with a local scout troop for nearly 3 years at the request of several fathers (one father was the Scoutmaster)who were friends of mine. All of them had sons in the troop. The father & the scouts wanted to do lots of outings. We agreed on rules, and training, which were non negotiable.
On canoeing outings:
All participants(including adults)wore pfds anytime they were in the canoes, and on the water.
Non swimmers(including adults) either became swimmers, or they did not go on canoeing outings.
All participants(including adults)going on canoeing outings must pass First Aid, CPR, Basic Water Safety , and Introduction to Canoeing courses.
I got friends who were Instructors to teach Red Cross CPR, and First Aid. Being a Canoeing Instructor, Advanced Swiftwater Rescue Instructor, Lifeguard Instructor, and Water Safety Instructor; I taught the remaining course.
When we did Backpacking, Caving, Rock Climbing/Rappeling outings there was similiar rules, and training required. Again, not negotiable.
Never had a real problem with complaints about the rules/training from the scouts, or the fathers.
My experience is that those who complain the loudest are often those who need the rules & training most.
As a matter of fact, the troop grew in size, and more fathers wanted to participate in outings as time passed. Quite a few of the scouts became Eagle scouts. I accompanied the troop(at their request)on their Philmont expedition.
During those 3 years; no injury requiring anything more than first aid ever occured to any outing participant. I think there was more than luck involved in that........
BOB
Good Policy
– Last Updated: Mar-09-09 8:48 PM EST –
When dealing with a recognized organization like this, I think it pays to play it "reasonably" safe, and this certainly seems reasonable to me.
I would modify this that one adult per canoe is more conservative than what is normally required in the Boy Scouts. Somehow I didn't catch that the first time around. However, times are changing, as far as liability issues go, so maybe it has come to this.
I didn't learn to swim well enough to meet the requirement of your Boy Scout troop (unless the backstroke counts) until I was an adult, but I made up my mind that as much time as I was spending fishing from small boats, it would have been stupid to go on being a very poor swimmer. Once I made up my mind to do it, I took a couple of classes and became pretty good, and it completely changed my "comfort level" when boating in less-than-perfect conditions or when swimming in places that require maintaining a clear head. Since taking those classes I have "practiced" regularly (the result of using swimming as a means of exercise), and have continued to get better. Making the decision to become a good swimmer (in spite of being quite afraid of deep, rough, or swift water prior to that) turned out to be one of the smartest things I've done.
besides the swim test
you should take the Safety Afloat training and do everything that’s required for the Canoeing merit badge, which includes practicing rescue techniques. it’s fun to learn along with the boys, and makes you a well-rounded paddler.
I think it’s overkill to require an adult in every canoe though. older boys can safely paddle on their own (especially since buddy boats are required) and they enjoy the independence.
Have your troop look into Maine High Adventure and Northern Tier!
Disability/handicap??
Doesn’t sound quite fair to the people with physical limits on their swimming ability. I have had 4 shoulder surgeries and do not have a complete shoulder. I ALWAYS wear my PFD and can swim without but not for 4 laps of a pool. I guess that means that I, and people with limitations would be left out. Not good.
Tom
I am fat
and with bad feet I can not run a marathon. That is too bad for me, so I paddle.
Why not?
BSA has a great many good policies.
- Big D
I was a lifeguard for 7 years. People
who can not swim should not be in the water. PERIOD.
People DO drown every year.
KIDS are more likely to drow early in the season than adults.
GOOD SWIMMERS drown in rivers.
People die later from NEAR DROWNING incidents even if they make it out okay.
I quit lifeguarding when the ARC insisted that people with disabilities had to be hired as lifeguards. Some people just should not be in, on or around the water.
…these days…
– Last Updated: Mar-10-09 12:00 PM EST –
It's a good idea even though I wasn't the greatest distance swimmer back when I was around 8, but had learned how to float and tread water..and kick. Especially today, organizations need to have degrees of certification whereby the lawyers won't flock in the post-tragedy feeding frenzy.
$.01
swimming vs rescue
It is always a good idea to be a swimmer if you are participating in water sports. However having one “good” swimmer in each canoe is not safe. If you have one good swimmer with out rescue experiance he is more likely to die helping those out who can not swim. Without lifesaving instruction he would feel obligated to save those in his boat who could not swim- often times they get drug down by the poor swimmer and die along with them.
This is a good policy
I paddle on rivers used by livery services. More than once I’ve had to help people who had flipped their rides. And more than once had to deal with panicked adults. I’ve found myself jumping in and swimming a swamped canoe to shore because the adults in the canoe are like a deer in the headlights. Interstingly, usually these people can swim. They simply are afraid and don’t know what to do.
The Boy Scouts and other youth organizations should also conduct swamping practice. It would be fun and would completely remove the fear if it should happen on an outing. I did this wihh my kids and they not only do they not fear flipping or swamping, they learned the limits of the canoes and kayaks we paddle.
they do
– Last Updated: Mar-10-09 6:55 PM EST –
the Canoeing merit badge is a pretty comprehensive introduction to paddling and rescue techniques:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Canoeing
on certain trips boys might not be allowed to paddle without an adult in the same boat unless they've already earned the Canoeing merit badge.
also, adult leaders must have a doctor's physical every year certifying they are fit to participate in various types of outdoor and potentially strenuous physical activities. not to mention all the training requirements for safety afloat / safe swim, youth protection, first aid, etc. etc.
I took a refresher swim class, got in better shape and lost some weight before we took our boys to Maine. There was paddling in swift river currents, fog and rain, rough chop a mile or more offshore in big lakes, and dark chilly waters, all in very remote areas. I would not want to put other parents' children at risk if I wasn't reasonably confident in my own abilities.
There is no BSA requirement
that boys have the Canoeing merit badge to be in a canoe without an adult.
In the Safety Afloat guidelines, there is a requirement that they have been appropriately trained for their canoeing activity – for whitewater canoeing it must be by a “qualified whitewater specialist”. For other (non white water) canoe activities, 3 hours training or passing a handling test is considered sufficient.
If a person is not a swimmer (i.e., has not passed the 100 yard BSA swimming test), they are only permitted to ride in a canoe as a non-paddling passenger, and there must be an adult in the canoe who is certified as a life guard.
Correcting myself
I was wrong on my initial post – the BSA requirement states that all “persons” paddling canoes must have passed the BSA swimmers test – not all “scouts” as I stated above.
Sorry for any confusion I may have caused or disinformation I may have propogated. Mea culpa. I learned something new today.
(Out of curiosity, I’m new at this – is it a sign of insanity if you respond to your own post?)
Yeah, we see some of that on our
busier whitewater rivers such as the Nantahala. I went to help a woman spilled out of a ducky in Lesser Wesser. She was clearly over 70, and while quite conscious, she acted like a piece of meat, doing nothing to hang on to the boat so I could get her to shore. On another occasion, a couple were perched on large rocks with their ducky semi-pinned against one of the rocks. That was a complicated rescue because I had to get her to clamber to shore while getting the ducky loose. The “livery” as all of them watch a video and sign wavers, but the livery has lost sight of how difficult the river really can be.
???/
Where did you get this info ?
Risk Management
the boy scouts & girls scouts both have very stringent safety requirements. They have to look at the issues from the perspective of liability.
Well, there you go
A handicapped adult could come along, as a passenger only, if accompanied by a lifeguard. Gets crazier, but still makes sense (except that you start loosing room for actual scouts in a scout activity)…
And those who volunteer should do
the same. Handicapped or not, am I likely to be helpful in an emergency or are others going to have to assist me? If the scouts are going rappelling and you weigh 500 lbs and have no skills, maybe the kids will have a more enjoyable day if they aren’t worried about having to figure out a way to rescue you.
The troops that still do serious adventure activities need leadership from people who can at least take care of themselves.
jim