Where are you located?
New Hampshire
Some boats will say Royalex on a badge or decal. Otherwise, the best way to tell is weight. A 17 foot Royalex canoe should weigh around 60-75 lbs. depending on design while a comparable poly canoe will be more like 85-95 lbs.
Besides Old Town, another brand to look for in your area is Esquif. They are in Quebec and make canoes of T-Formex, which is a composite similar to Royalex.
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Thanks! I know weight is the big difference but I don’t know how I’d tell that in the field unless comparing two side by side. I could probably tell the difference between a 65 lb boat and a 90 lb one but not sure I could discern between one that is 70 and one that is 80.
I’m not confident I could tell the difference in person by look and feel. The weight is the main difference, and maybe poly scratches easier. Another clue might be the date. Royalex production ended in 2014.
I see several OT Trippers on Marketplace when I set location to NH. There are also several Mad River Explorers (16’ but can carry a 10 day load for two adults). There are also several OT Discoverys there as well. Those are poly but are the best of the poly hulls.
I know that you have reasons for keeping the $$$ low but there is a Northstar B17 in IXP there. We have a B17 in Black Lite & love it. Huge capacity and you can get a removable center seat. The B series are moving water focused and so require some attention on lakes.
Kari-
I think the simplest approach would be an inflatable canoe or kayak seat for your child. Since your husband weighs considerably more than you, the kid could go forward of the central carry thwart (or yoke).
I wouldn’t rule out fiberglass. I have a 16 footer that weighs 54 pounds. Or an older Kevlar boat - my 17 foot Wenonah weighs 43 pounds.
Royalex boats are commanding premium prices now, because the material is no longer made and the replacements are heavier.
Any boat you buy should be stored out of the sun, but If by chance you find a Royale boat with wooden gunwales, that would also need to be protected from very cold weather to prevent freeze cracks (the Royalex contracts, the wood doesn’t, the Royalex cracks.)
we used a Penobscot 186 which came with 3 seats, and added another clip-in seat when the boys got too big to share a seat.
The problem with a third fixed seat in the boat is it tends to be exactly where the portage yoke needs to be. Carrying the 186 was painful as I had to use the seat for the yoke and that didn’t work very well. I’d recommend a clip-in / drop-in seat instead, the kid’s weight isn’t going to affect the boat trim noticeably with 2 adult paddlers and a dog in there.
Penobscot 17 in Royalex would be a fine boat. IIRC the Penobscots were always Royalex. The OT Discovery is poly, they are very good family tripping boats but heavy.
We had an OT Discovery 158 which was poly. This was 3 feet shorter than the Penobscot and weighed the same 85lbs… carried a lot easier though, as it had a proper portage yoke.
Or, the Mad River Explorer would work well, I’d like it better in whitewater than the Penobscot. The clip-in seat from the Penobscot (sold on to a younger family) also fits in my MRE. These were made in Royalex, Kevlar, fiberglass and now there are new ones in T-formex, similar weight to poly, about 80lbs. My Royalex MRE is 65.
The clip-in seat we have is from Old Town, I don’t remember paying this much though…
https://oldtownwatercraft.johnsonoutdoors.com/us/shop/accessories-parts/seats/snap-center-canoe-seat
The Spring Creek one is slightly cheaper, should also work
Actually like this one best of all the designs I find, but UK-made so shipping would be expensive… I like this since it will adjust to fit anywhere in the boat, and looks to be lighter and more easily carried/stored than the big plastic one from OT.
https://www.endlessriver.co.uk/seats-bolts/add-a-passenger-canoe-seat/
A similar seat locally or at least the same continent, much more expensive tho,
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The Penobscot 17 is Royalex. They made a Penobscot 174 made of 3 layer poly. I have a Tripper and a Penobscot 17. They are both great family boats that can often be found at reasonable prices.
The Discovery 169 is a poly boat made from the same mold as the tripper. The poly shrinks a little more so it ends up at 16 feet 9 inches instead of 17 feet 2 inches.
It all depends on your budget. Lighter kevlar new boats will cost more money and be more fragile. Older Royalex or poly boats will be cheaper and tougher, but heavier.
Thanks! I wish there was a comparison chart or something to see which canoes are most like others. I know Mad River and Wenonah both make good boats, just don’t know how those models compare to models I am familiar with. I’m wary of getting something that might be too tippy or too challenging to manuever, as I think it would ruin canoeing for our family. Upon your advice I looked and there is a 16’ Mad River Explorer (not sure of material) in good shape about 1.5 hours from us at a reasonable price. Initial online research suggests it might be a good boat.
$2500 is way outside our budget. I wouldn’t even be considering getting a canoe if that was the $$$ we had to spend to get one!
Oooh good to know. We live in NH (cold winters) and while storing out of the sun is doable, indoors is not. Our kayaks get cockpit covers and stay outside year round. How do fiberglass and Kevlar compare to Royalex in terms of durability and maintenance? I really just want a boat we don’t have to baby. Lighter weight and durable while being reasonably affordable is the goal.
Thank you for the great info on seats. I found the Old Town and Spring Creek ones and figured they would work providing whatever boat we end up with is the appropriate width. When we paddled our friends Penobscot 17 this weekend our 3yo kept trying to sit on the yoke (which probably wasn’t a huge deal as our kid is under 40 lbs and you can carry the whole weight of the canoe with the yoke, but still not ideal).
I’m considering a 16’ Mad River Explorer too, good to know the seat works with it. We are in New Hampshire, so Mad Rivers and Old Towns seem to be the most popular boats on Marketplace.
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Maybe pay attention to rocker as you consider models. I don’t know how much rocker the Penobscot 17 has in inches, but it is rumored to be mild to moderate, and it can turn easily enough for river use. In Wenonah’s lineup, the 17 foot Spirit II is probably closest to the Penobscot 17. The Spirit II has 1.5" rocker, which is mild, and the hull is wide on the waterline at the center of the boat. Wenonah’s performance/distance touring models, like the 17 foot Escape, have zero rocker and a sharp entry. They are meant for going straight across lakes efficiently, but they don’t have the versatility of the Spirit II.
I believe the Mad River Explorer and OT Disco have moderate rocker too.
First, don’t over think it. If that Exporer that you are thinking about is in even fair shape bring it home. If it doesn’t work out you can likely sell it for what you paid for it.
Key things to look at are 1) wear, especially and the stern. Wear through the vinyl is ok but you don’t want any wear into the ABS. and 2) cold cracks especially with wood gunwales. They are preventable and fixable but those should reduce the price.
Durability of composites depends on the layup. Go for light like a race boat and they can be fragile. Go for expedition quality like a Kruger Seawind and they will survive nigh onto anything.
Finally, don’t be concerned abut where your 3 yr old want to sit. If she is along and mostly happy then it’s all good. Just like having a dog along it’s up to the adults to be happy & keep things in balance. If you are really lucky s/he will be paddling the bow in a couple of years.
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Thanks! I’d care less about him sitting on the yoke of a boat we owned (or a rental beater) vs our friends nice Royalex Penobscot. He was happy and having a great time, although he dropped his paddle, which we retrieved, and now that’s all he talks about. Three year olds, lol.
We are going to look at a 1989 16’ Mad River Explorer this weekend. Royalex with wood gunwhales, caned seats, and a center thwart as opposed to a yoke. There are only a few photos posted in the listing but it looks to be in good shape, and the owners have been very responsive to all my questions. I like your advice about trying it out - the price is in a range where I feel like we could resell it without losing out if we don’t like it. The boat has been kept outside and stored under a deck when not in use for the five years these people have had it so I know its endured New England winter temperatures. I will look carefully for cold cracks, although I’m not sure if I’ll be able to see damage hidden under the gunwhales. Any tips or tricks for inspecting that (and what else I might look for on a boat this age) would be appreciated!
Thank you! I’ve read the Penobscot has a mild rocker. Our inability to turn it quickly would suggest that is definitely a possibility (but we could also chalk that up to inexperience with hubby in the back, so hard to say for sure). In reading comparisons, it seems like the 16’ Mad River Explorer might be good for us - quite stable, maybe a bit easier to manuever, able to hauls lots of gear, can go solo decently - so we are checking one out this weekend. Fingers crossed!
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That 186 is cool!
Yes, the MR Explorer is manueverable but still tracks pretty well. It’s good up to Calss III+ Whitewater (by 1990s classifications). Here’s a picture from …long… ago:
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nah, the Penobscot is hard to turn 
I felt like a container boat skipper from the stern of ours, so much boat ahead of me, turning so slowly…
The MRE will turn easier but will be slower than a Penobscot 17, not that speed matters much in a family boat…
Ended up buying a Royalex 16’ Mad River Explorer today and took it out for a spin in the same pond we tried our friend’s Penobscot 17 last weekend. It was a lot easier to turn but didn’t track as straight, as expected, but felt stable (hubby thinks moreso than the Penobscot) and will likely serve us well. We are looking forward to enjoying it once we get some decent paddles.
One thing I’m a little apprehensive about is the design/materials of the gunwales - they appear to be part wood and part plastic. I posted a new topic with photos here: Royalex 16' Mad River Explorer with Hybrid Gunwales?.
I’m hoping they are fine, and maybe mean we don’t have to worry about cold cracks and winter storage so much, but I’m so unfamiliar with that design that it worries me a bit. Last night a killer deal on a Penobscot 17 with a set of Bending Branches paddles popped up about the same distance away from us. I contacted that seller immediately and was probably first in line but there was no way we could see it before this afternoon unless we backed out of going to see the MRE. Unfortunately buying two boats in one day was out of the question as 5 hours of round trip driving is just too much for our 3yo, but I was ready to buy it tomorrow if it was still available. It sold less than 12h after being posted. So I’m just hoping I didn’t pass up an insanely good deal on a low maintenance boat that would have ticked all of our boxes for a pretty good deal on a boat that needs more work and care.
Anyway, if anyone has advice about those gunwales please feel free to post in the other thread!