It may be the best river shop in Texas.
Other than Canoesport in Houston, most don’t carry much in the way of canoes anymore. But, I wouldn’t buy from Canoesport unless I knew exactly what I wanted and why. Not the most gracious folk in the business.
Price check on aisle 7…
– Last Updated: Jan-25-08 6:58 PM EST –
20 minutes of web surfing resulted in these prices:
Mohawk Odyssey 14 $902.00
Wenonah Vagabond $999.00
Wenonah Argosy $999.00
Bell Yellowstone Solo $1,100.00
Mad River Freedom Solo $1,149.00
Bell Merlin II $2,449.00
Placid Rapidfire $2,495.00
Placid Flashfire $2,545.00
Placid Wildfire $2,645.00
Taxes, delivery fees, or travel costs to get to the closest dealer that would handle these boats was "not" taken into consideration.
You may find some of these boats on sale for lower prices. You may find older models that are significantly lower. Then again, you may not.
Try it before you buy it.
Good luck,
BOB
P.S. Whatever you buy; tell the dealer you want a hat thrown in (for free) with the deal. I got lots of free hats!
Good used solo canoes in Texas
are sort of like finding Hen’s teeth. Even then, they don’t sell, which is great for those of us who recognize how good and useful they can be. A Royalex Vagabond sat on a local dealer’s showroom floor for over a year, not selling until a guy asked me about Old Town Pack canoes and I suggested he look at the Vagabond. Never been in the water and sold for $600. Texas ain’t a canoe state.
Basics
Let’s start with a few things that set perimeters.
How tall are you?
What do you weigh?
Do you intend to Kneel? Maybe you cannot kneel?
Would your rather sit?
Do you want to sit low, as in a pack canoe?
Do you wish to use a single stick or a double blade?
Answer those Qs and we’ll have a starting point.
TG Very Good Start
Mark,
I think you are right to go with royalex for our hill country rivers, anything west of I35 really.
TG’s is a great place to start, particularly since you are just learning with the canoe. They are a family run place that will treat you like family. They are right on the San Marcos River and have the best selection of boats that I know of in the state. I was in there browsing before Christmas. Dwayne has always got good information and can fix you up with trying out boats, or discuss boats you found on Craigslist or at a garage sale. They can probably give some paddling pointers too. I’ve bought two boats from them and always appreciate how they treat me. They usually have a good selection of Wenonahs and a smattering of Mad Rivers, Old Towns and even a few Bells. They do lots of repair and customizing work as well. Good folks to know.
Good luck,
SYOTR
Answers to basics
I am 5’8" and 160 lbs. As to the other questions I really want it all (if I can have it). Since I am used to using a double blade I want to start out using that. However one of the reasons for choosing a canoe over a SOT kayak is that I want to learn something knew like single blade technique. I was assuming that I would be paddling kneeling in rapids and paddling sitting on the flatwater sections. Maybe that is not the proper way to be doing things. Would paddling kneeling with the single blade and paddling sitting with the double blade be a more reasonable combination? I have no idea how to answer the “sitting low” question. What are the pros and cons of the pack canoe position? If it is just an increased stability choice I would just have to see how I feel in some canoes before answering it. I do paddle a 17ft 20.5 in wide sea kayak in some fairly rough conditions so I do not think stability will be a big issue. Of course I have never paddled a canoe so it could be more of a problem than I think.
Sorry to not have direct answers but I am in a very early learning stage. If the combining of single and double blades is not practical please let me know. The same thing for mixing kneeling with sitting. Do people normally double blade from the sitting or kneeling position?
Mark
Royalex is quieter when scraping across
rocks in the shallows. I hate the sound of composite boats grinding over rocks - especially when it’s my boat.
Royalex vs. Kevlar or Expedition Kevlar
I agree with everything so far, and am thinking at your height and weight the Wenonah Vagabond is a sweet little canoe, as is the Mohawk Odyssey 14. I’d make a choice based on what’s available in your area which indicates there is probably a market for that model and you can re-sell easier. The idea of starting with a used boat makes sense in the event you don’t like it. I would definitely steer you away from Kevlar or Expedition Kevlar during your learning curve. ON the other hand, there’s a Yellowstone Solo White Gold for sale in Oregon for $500, so bargains do come up from time to time. As for expedition kevlar, it is gut wrenching to hit a jagged rock at 8 mph with a full load and watch the side of your $2500 canoe cave in. In my case it left a grapefruit size soft spot in my hull that feels kind of mushy. It’s above the waterline so I’m not worried about it but I still wish I’d been using a $900 Royalex boat that day. On the other hand, if you can start with a $500 composite that’s one different.
guideboatguy is either a demolition
derby paddler or has unusually bad luck in choosing rock targets. I have had even conventional construction composite boats clobber rocks with only superficial damage. I have also seen Royalex boats get their bows permanently crumpled from a hard hit. And the actual loss of material from the bottom of a boat dragged over sharp limestone gravel is probably greater for Royalex than for composite. That’s what you expect for a softer (vinyl) versus a harder material.
That said, you’re certainly going to be happier in Royalex while doing your first trips. You might have added the Mad River Guide (now, I believe, the “Freedom 14”) to your list.
Mad River Freedom
I think it is now the Freedom Solo (14’6"). I like the dimensions and rocker numbers. Mad River website lists it at 55 lbs. That is heavier than I wanted. I was trying to get something at least under 50lbs. If I can find a dealer that has one I will try lifting it and see how it feels.
Do you think 55 lb canoe is easier or harder to deal with than a 55 lb kayak? I can handle my 55 lb kayak with a shoulder carry ok, but it is just at my limit of getting it up on the car by myself. Getting something lighter was another of my main reasons for looking at caneos rather than plastic kayaks for the river.
Mark
Kneeling vs Sitting
You can use a double-blade paddle from either a sitting or kneeling position. If you adjust the seat up high and angled forward for kneeling, sitting for any length of time will require the use of a footrest. However, if you want to paddle sitting, you will find that a footrest makes it much easier to do a decent job of it anyway.
When I started out in a Wenonah Vagabond, I used a double-blade paddle and soon added a footrest. When I gave up the double-blade and switched to kneeling, I would occassionally sit and use the footrest to take a break, but I’ve never added a footrest to the three canoes I use now, because kneeling is the main way I use those boats. I usually rest my knees one at a time every once in a while by paddling with one leg extended. A footbrace would be handy for resting the legs, but I haven’t felt a really strong need for that.
Many Wenonah boats have seats which quickly change height and angle. The seat on the Mohawk Odyssey 14 adjusts in a few minutes by using spacers, and by mounting the seat above or below the hangers, so you probably won’t be messing with adjusting it in the field, though you could easily enough.
Based on your intended purpose for getting a canoe, I don’t think sitting on the floor of a pack canoe is logical. I’d recommend you try kneeling, as that’s the single biggest step you can take to improving boat control. If you find that you can kneel comfortably for an extended time, that’s probably the main method you will use. If you are not really comfortable kneeling, sitting on an seat that’s angled for kneeling with your feet against a footbrace works really well (it “locks you in” better than sitting on a flat seat), and in that case you can easily switch to kneeling for brief periods, like for rapids.
Freedom Solo
– Last Updated: Jan-26-08 1:42 PM EST –
Have owned Mad River Guides(still have one of them), and have also owned a Freedom Solo.Sold it; don't think the Freedom Solos are as well made as the Guides were. Have a lot of seat time in a Guide; one of my favorite multipurpose canoes.
That being said, I can assure you the Freedom Solo will be more affected by wind than some of the other models mentioned. On the other hand, the Freedom Solo is a more manueverable boat than some mentioned,in particular the Vagabond. But then, the Vagabond will track better than the Freedom Solo & it is lighter weight.
Do you want a lighter, heavier, harder tracking, more manueverable, less affected by wind, wind not a concern boat? There is no perfect boat for all conditions/consideration. That is why test paddling & comparing boats is important. Unfortunately for you, that may not be possible; so at some point you may have to "settle" for what is available in your area. Keep your eye on solo canoes for sale in your area.
Is a 55 lb kayak easier to load than a 55 pound canoe? I don't know; I don't kayak. I can't wait to hear answers on that one.........
BOB
P.S. I know that guideboat guy; have seen the way he treats his canoes & his guide boat. He's most definitely a "rock basher". All of his boats look like crap; particularly that composite guide boat barge he has. Stay out of his way, or you might get mistaken for a rock & get run over. No boat control whatsoever & a lazy paddler to boot. Heck! about half the time he's paddling backwards; what does that tell you?
Hi Eric!
Check out my wording above
– Last Updated: Jan-26-08 8:32 PM EST –
I said "isn't it true... (?)" in regard to most composite boats being more subject to breakage, because that's what I always hear people say, even on this board. Besides, based on the number of composite canoes I've seen with major patch-jobs, and hearing the stories about what caused the damage, I can only assume that the average composite hull breaks pretty easily on impact in comparison to Royalex. A friend of mine has an old, but extremely well-made (Blackhawk) canoe canoe that has quite a few little mushy spots from rock contacts which were not head-on, but glancing blows (and the boat has never seen anything worse than easy Class I rapids). I just don't see examples of serious damage on Royalex boats from these same sorts of impacts.
In my own experience, I have had just two damage-causing impacts on my composite guideboat (it has either five or seven layers of fiberglass and Kevlar, I can't remember for sure at the moment (Edit: Wrong either way. Actually it has two layers of each, for a total of four layers)). In both cases, the impact was of a sort which would have caused no damage to a Royalex boat at all, other than a little scuff mark, and maybe a little dent in one case.
Come on Eric…
Admit it; you’re a demolition derby basher!
:^)
BOB
Yeah, everyone scatters…
… onto the riverbank when they see me coming.
Me too!
– Last Updated: Jan-26-08 2:18 PM EST –
But my idol is PJC; the king of the "rock bashers".
If I bring my "new to me" Hemlock SRT up there this August, I'm not going let either one of you "bashers" try it out.
BOB
Have you considered gunwale material?
I like low maintenance, so I prefer aluminum on composite boats and vinyl on royalex boats. I don’t want to baby the gunwales when loading/unloading the boat from storage racks and car roof racks.
Wood looks good, but I don’t want to deal with the regular maintenance. Other’s love the look of wood and enjoy the ritual of the maintenance.
canoe demolition derby
All this canoe demolition derby talk has me rethinking being disappointed about not being able to make this year’s Spring Ozark Rendezvous - NOT!
Besides, I’ve bashed my red Freedom Solo around pretty well by myself, and as John Cameron Swayze used to say about those old Timex watches: “It takes a licking and keeps on ticking.”
rocks and gravel
Those two words stuck out for me. And if I was solo paddlings through rocks and gravel I’d take a Mad River Explorer 14 TT and sit backwards in the bow seat.
It is really tough polyethelene ,paddles well, and it only weighs about 72 pounds.
I don;t think royalex is near as tough as poly.
“Only” 72 pounds!
– Last Updated: Jan-27-08 8:41 PM EST –
Even if the original poster hadn't already said his target weight was something less than 50 pounds, 72 pounds is just enormously heavy for a boat used solo. This must be the heaviest 14-foot canoe ever made, outside of a chopper-gun glass boat from the 60s. By the way, how's that beast cruise and maneuver in comparison to the three truely awesome boats he is already considering? Sorry -- can't help but point out the obvious.
Okay, I just looked at the Mad River site and was surprised that this actually is NOT that overgrown rec kayak that Mad River has the gall to call a "canoe". I figured it must have been for it to weigh that much. That boat still needs to go on a diet though, even if it has reasonable specs otherwise.