"Do you feel that a canoe like the bob special would really have a 300-500 dollar advantage over the others? It definatly seems like it would fit what i want almost perfectly but just dont know if i can justify the extra expense."
The Bob seems to be nearly ideal for what you have in mind. It's a versatile boat. Of course there are trade offs and it doesn't excel at everything, but it will do most of what you require quite well.
As far as the extra cost, when you consider that you might have this boat for 10 - 15 years I think the extra expense is worth it. Would you rather spend those 10-15 years in a boat that doesn't quite do what you want it to, or one that does most of what you want it to reasonably well?
I learned a long time ago that its better to spend more money up front and get what you really want, because you aren't saving anything if you cut corners,then find you need to upgrade in a year or two.
list is getting shorter! Alright i think im finally getting a picture of what i need.(not the adironack)lol I am definatly thinking that a smaller tandem 14-16 ft. with some rocker and in royalex with decent carrying capacity, but not to be too concerned about that.
I like how you decribed going up river, i was definatly confused on what would be best for this. Currently what i actually own is an otter stealth 2000(big stable clunker, lol) Bought it for just purly duck hunting and last year attempted even with another person running it on the cloquet river up here. It has a lot of dents and was walked up the river for about 4 hours in ankle to chest deep water mostly in the dark stumbling around. lol, didnt go on the river again with it! I have some canoeing experience, but it has only been solo on lakes, on rivers its always just been in an alumacraft with another person. I know the basics, but definatly am a true beginer.
I think for now I will just keep watching classified ads and hope something i like pops up. I know I will have it for a long time, but just can’t afford to spend more then $1000 at this time(still in college). I was at first just going to buy a good old heavy alumacraft 16 footer for around 2-300 hundred dollars so im sure whatever i pick out will give me an advantage over that! It will be a lot of fun to finally have my own canoe though once i figure it out. I love fishing smaller rivers since nobody is ever on them and the fishing is almost always way above average.
Anyways thanks for all the help, you definatly gave me a clearer picture of what i need to concentrate my search on. I hope I can find a nova craft bob or prospector or similar boat before ice out on the rivers in a month or so. If anyone else had any good suggestions of canoes id still appreciate them to broaden my search beyond mohawk, bell, wenonah and nova craft. Thanks,
If you had started this discussion two or three weeks ago, you could have ordered a Bob Special from Rutabaga during their "Canoecopia" boat show. Doing so at that time would have saved $179 off the regular $1195 price. Shipping would have been virtually free, because I live in the same town as the Rutabaga paddle shop, and a friend of mine and I plan to visit some folks we know in Duluth some time this summer. We could do a trip sooner rather than later, and also, the Duluth folks will probably be passing through this area later in April. You could have gotten the boat for $1000 and had free shipping.
Still, with a list price of $1195 from Rutabaga, and free shipping courtesy of Guideboatguy, the Bob Special might still be a good deal for you.
If this seems strange for me to make such an offer, people on these boards often ask if someone out there can deliver a boat to them. In fact, I sold a boat to a p-netter in Missouri last spring and another p-netter delivered it to him during a trip he already planned to take. It happens all the time.
If you like this idea, bear in mind that you can buy almost any common type of canoe from Rutabaga in Madison, and a number of others from "The Paddlin Shop" in the same town.
The Bob This has turned into a very good Q&A of an often discussed topic. As I paddle a Bob Special on many of the same waters as guideboatguy (whose well-crafted posts on this have certainly gone beyond the call of duty) let me offer up a couple of supportive points. First the issue of canoe versus kayak (and I paddle both.) I’d suggest that you divide your discussion into two broad categories: Internal and External variables. Internal variables include uses (fishing, hunting, dog, load, tandem/solo.) External include location (rivers, lakes, sloughs), conditions (flatwater, moving water, whitewater, waves, etc.) transportation (both to the put in and portaging.) And, of course, this soup needs to be seasoned by considering cost, both initial and long term. As a general statement (and, p.netters, please remember that I said “As a general statement” when writing to castigate me on a specific point!) the more variables you have on your internal list, the more your decision points to a multi-purpose canoe and away from a kayak. The greater number of variables in your external list points to multiple boats. Your post has a pretty long list of internal variables and a shorter list of external ones. Having said that, I love my Nova Craft Bob Special for all the reasons listed in the previous posts. I paddle it 70-80% of the time solo (with a 40 liter dry bag filled with water balancing out the boat.) It is stable for all sorts of activties (including a flat-coated retriever who is way more interested in fishing than I am!) I own two other canoes (a fast tandem and a fast solo) and a kayak but find myself more and more in the Bob doing all sorts of things in all kinds of places in all kinds of weather. Your decision really isn’t about the boat itself; rather, it is about the experiences you crave and finding a boat that allows you to seek them out more often, more conveniently and more comfortably. For me, that boat is the Bob. And I think it might be a good choice for you, too. Paddle on!
Edit:
I didn't delete this entry because it would have deleted all the connected comments. I usually avoid these threads; I'm sorry I didn't this time.
not a purist… an old guy Just wanted you to know I am a solo Canoe guy who Canoe’s with a bunch of solo canoe guys…I had not tandem canoed in seven years until last spring on a 19ft grumman for a river clean up… any way … Most of us are big boys… older big boys 50+ with lots of paddling experience… we make our own rules and follow our own solo paths and I would encourage you to do the same… the small guys can do the canoes designed for solo canoeing… like the guide but big guys who want do do expedition type canoeing… river canoe camping… hunting… dogs… I would recommend a tandem canoe remade for solo… like the 16-1/2 ft old town Panobscot… royalex…If I was going to buy a brand new canoe there is one made of a new light material by Esquif… a company out of Canada www.esquif.com … it is called the Mistral…it is canoe to dream about… I current solo in a Canadienne 20 years old… rigged for solo 17 fiberglass…
The other thing we do… is we are into comfort… so we take what we want in gear and food… most of the canoes I mentioned have over a 800lbs capacity… and when you load dog… you… food … gear and head out its nice to have the capacity… finally I would recommend if you go solo… get a kayak paddle… all of us carry a kayak paddle and canoe paddle… at the very least into a head wind in a lake or wide river you will have a more comfortable paddle most of us alternate back and forth…
so you know I am 55 … paddleing rivers and lakes and camping on them from when I was ten or so …in rocky midwest rivers… led many trips to the boundary waters and quetico … the buffalo… the current … the 11pt… so my opinion comes from that back ground…
still thinking… guide… thanks for the offer and i might take you up on it. Right now i am still looking at other options though and seaching out a good used canoe. It definatly is nice to know that i could get the boat up here somehow without driving out there myself or having it shipped though, so thank you for that!
My next question is what other boats are similiar to the bob special? I have my choices narrowed down to this right now - I want it to have tandem capibilities, 14-16 ft. long, max carrying capacity of 700+ so i could comfortably carry around anywhere from 300-550lbs., rocker anywhere from 1"-4 iches, symetrical canoe so i have the option of turning it around and sitting in a seat, anywhere from 34"-37" wide, better secondary stability so if i do get knocked off balance it will be steadier as leaned further to the sides but also decent primary stability, royalite or royalex material. As far as weight I am thinking anything up to 70 pounds will be fine, but not more and preferable under 60. weight really is lower on the list compared to how it will perform for the price though.
My next question is would kevlar hold up to the situations I would be using my canoe in? There is a canoe for sale in madison right now, the nova craft bob special in kevlar for 1200, so that would give me the same canoe i am thinking of buying, but lighter and no sales tax. It also would come with two sawyer paddles. I am only going to be in Ely for one more year and then actually going to stevens point, wi to continue my wildlife management degree. How are the rivers in wisconsin compared to northern MN?
Where i currently am located I can get bell and wenonah canoes substanially cheaper since a lot of the outfitters use them up here. I also can get decent deals on mad river and old town canoes. Where is another good source to look for used canoes online?
What makes the bob special a better canoe then one comparable in stats to it of another brand?
Mad River explorer 14tt 72 pounds, poly canoe, tough, paddles great , pretty light, better for fishing rivers than a kayak, better for a dog than a kayak, way better for hunting than a kayak.
For cold water I’d wear neoprene waders with a safety belt and a slashtop or dry top. Over that you need a pfd. Get a pfd that works with your gun and put a leash on the gun.
mad river 14 tt I just check this canoe out, had not looked at it yet. I think it just might fit what I need for a lot cheaper. It might not be quite as nice as others and a bigger bear to portage, but I found a factory second for $499…so 700 hundred cheaper. Its already in camo too!
What do others think of this canoe and how do i know if it is symmetrical so i could paddle it backwards? thanks,
By the specs, it is not symmetrical, but it’s not strongly assymetrical either, so it might paddle backward okay. I can’t tell if there might be a thwart right behind the front seat or not (which would make reverse paddling from there impossible without some modifications).
Besides the weight, my only fear is that it won’t retain its shape when left out in the sun. Every polyethylene canoe I’ve ever seen has been really badly warped. I haven’t seen a Mad River polyethylene canoe yet, but it seems that the hull material would be more important than the brand when it comes to something like this. I’m NOT saying this will be a problem, only that I myself would worry about it in the absence of some good evidence to the contrary.
thinking im going with the explorer tt I think I might end up just going with the explorer tt. I still like the nova crafts quite a bit more, but I dont know about 700 dollars more. Getting this one at 499 I think ill paddle it up here for the year and either keep it or sell it for around the same price and by a bob special once im out in wisconsin when they go on discount. As far as it warping, does this happen from just using it outside or more of a storage thing? Is it the actual heat or the rays from the sun that do it(would it happen sunny spring fall days)? I currently drive an s-10 with 6 ft box, what would be the best way to haul the canoe being 14 1/2 ft? What kneeling thwarts and paddle would you recommend and what other gear should i be thinking about getting? I have PFD already and some paddles, but they are not the best, just some $30 cheapies.
I'm thinking of getting one. That "J" gets to my elbow sometimes after a bit. Might use it when soloing my tandem Wen Adr. Trying to get out of purist world after many years of paddling canoes.
I'm not sure about the durability of a Kevlar boat. That boat isn't pure kevlar - it has a couple layers of fiberglass too, but in general, that material is fairly susceptible to getting "crunched" when it hits rocks. There are some heavy-duty fiberglass boats, but usually Kevlar-fiberglass blends are made with lightweight in mind, not durability.
I think the warping of polyethylence canoes is something that happens in the extreme heat of the sun during storage and trasnport, especially if the boat is tied down to a rack too tightly. It shouldn't be a concern while you are actually using the boat. If you can store it inside or mostly in the shade, that should help. It might also be a good idea to store it on a rack of some kind (even just upside down on a pair of sawhorses) so there's no uneven stress on the hull.
If you have a pickup with a six-foot bed, you either need to rig up a rack like contractors use for carrying ladders, or put a pair of cross bars on the roof of a topper (there are lots of ways to do either). One other possibility is to mount a single cross bar to the cab (Thule or Yakama brand racks), and a second cross bar at the same height supported by a vertical column attached to a 2-inch square receiver hitch. I'd suggest you start a new topic asking about this, but all the replies will tell you some variation of these three methods. Check out the "Guidelines" section right here on P-net for advice on tying down the boat on your vehicle's rack (see the "Guidelines" button over on the left side of the page).
I'm not sure where to buy a kneeling thwart. They are easy to make though, and that might be another question to ask here. A third seat might be a better option for all-day comfort. Make sure you get some padding to put on the floor for your knees. There are pads made just for that, or you can get flexible closed-cell foam (like a compact sleeping pad - not the inflatable kind) and use that. Carpenters' knee pads work in a pinch, and some people even prefer them.
There are lots of good paddles out there. Bending Branches is the most popular brand of paddles which are pretty good quality without being terribly expensive - just don't get their bottom-of-the-line paddles because the blades are too small. I'm partial to Sawyer paddles, which cost just a little more. For your use (which includes shallow water), I'd use a blade which is fairly short and broad (maybe 8 to 9 inches wide and roughly 20 inches long). For sizing, sit on a chair and measure the distance from the seat to somewhere between your forehead and the top of your head. That distance equals the length of the paddle's shaft. The actual length of the paddle is that length PLUS the length of the blade, so the length of paddle you need depends on what style of blade you choose. A shaft of the length I suggested works well for a kneeler. People who sit low need slightly shorter paddles. There's room for variation to account for personal preference too.
As to the amount of rocker you want in a boat, 1 to 2 inches will do fine (one inch will allow much better turning than a non-rockered boat, two inches or more will make the boat a "turning machine" and it will take more skill to keep it aimed the way you want), and I sure wouldn't go more than 3 inches on the rocker, unless maybe it's a longer boat than what you are currently considering. Don't worry - not many boats have that much rocker unless they are made for whitewater.
PFDs can be cheap or very expensive (like about $100 to $140). I think you would prefer a fairly expensive one if you plan to wear it while shooting, because the cheaper ones fit like vests, so there will be thick padding right where you want to shoulder your shotgun, but if money is too tight, you might need to deal with that inconvenience. Paddler's PFDs (which are the more expensive style than the cheap everyday boater's kind), if you get the right kind, only have a nylon strap on the front of the shoulder, and two "panels" of floatation on the chest and one bigger panel on the back.
14tt pretty symetrical I often paddled mine solo facing backward from the bow seat and never knew that it was supposed to be assymetrical. Where did you find them for $499 new? Thats about what we would pay for a used on here?