classes
I also do plan to get some instruction for specific skills that I don’t have yet.
Avocet
I think it’s an Avocet RM that he has for sale. Major difference or no?
Well worth
a look.Here’s a good on/off water vid review-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T8FGUG0Gm8&playnext=1&list=PLB430FD583E4638C7&feature=results_main
There’s several more on YT.
RM makes the price less good
Demo Avocets rotomolded were getting sold off at the end of the season for $800 at one place we know of a couple of years back. It’s a good price but not one that is so low you get it because you couldn’t lose money if you tried. $500 gets you into that ballpark - we’ve known people who will grab boats at that price and turn them around for an extra hundred or so bucks just to do it.
The current Valley RM layups are surprisingly light, much different than the ones of several years ago. So it is likely to be a moderate weight against the length of the boat.
There shouldn’t be any difference of import between the actual fit or dimensions of the RM versus the fiberglass version. If you were to measure the two you would find some small diff’s - it is the nature of the two processes - but nothing that should be fatal.
My one concern about the Avocet LV, getting to this on a second round, is a question about where you are carrying the 30 pounds over me. It is a quite low deck, sufficiently so that you would want to sit in one if the weight is around your hips and thighs. Granted that any well-fitting boat will feel a bit tight at first - beginners haven’t had the chance to get accustomed to the feel of these things and haven’t had time or training to understand why they fit that way. But you don’t want to have to use cooking oil to get your legs under the thigh braces either.
Celia has a great point
Getting my 12’ boat off on/off the Escape (small SUV) requires it to be pretty vertical going up and down and being able to lift most of the weight over your head. If you normally drive an SUV, I would go for 14+ boats on that alone. It’s been a surprise for me that, in many ways, it’s much easier to load a kayak on a sedan than an SUV. You would think that the trunk would get in the way but it actually really helps.
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Thank you, Celia
…for explaining so clearly what several of us have been struggling to convey to folks seeking first boat or upgrade advice, that being the on-land handling advantages many longer and more slender kayak models can offer them in both lower weight and easier lifting leverage.
+1 for wagons
Absolutely. It’s a tragedy that Americans have turned against the venerable station wagon- which is still popular in Europe, btw, and they ones that look cool n’ sporty too.
About the only things that really fit the bill in the US for sporty/cool-yet-practical wagons are the Acura TSX wagon, the Audi A4, and Jetta Sportwagen. All but the Jetta are not what most ppl would call cheap, and VW still has a rep for lousy reliability.
There’s also the new Subaru Outback, but it’s a bit of a monster size- and weight-wise, and the Mini Cooper Clubman, which unfortunately is tiny. BMW is rumored to be bringing in a 3-Series wagon, but it won’t be cheap either, obviously.
Finally, there’s the Prius V and the Hyundai Elantra Touring. Good vehicles, but not what anyone would call ‘sporty’…
What the US really needs is something like the TSX wagon, but for about 10 grand less than the low 30s they’re asking. =<br />
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Good to know
Good to know. I would definitely sit in it and as he lives on water, try it out first for fit and my comfort level. My weight is um…evenly distributed. It’s not all in one area, so that’s helpful. I know the price he’s asking also reflects the spray skirt, pfd (which I don’t particularly need-as I have my own) and a helmet. But it is good to know what they were going for. I also know he’s had it for at least 3 years, so it may be the heavier version, I guess. I am trying to get a hold of him to try it out. Playing email tag, etc… hopefully soon. Thanks for the tip about the demo ones and pricing.
yes
Yes, thank you everyone, specifically celia and willowleaf, for giving me good points to think about and attend to. I am listening. Having a hard time getting local dealers to take the time to let me demo some of their boats. I plan to look at the Carolina, Looksha,Manitou, Avocet(used), Tsunami soon. Hopefully! I would like to try all before all the deals start on Labor day weekend. I am also looking for a couple for the kids- likely Acadia scouts. My daughter is falling in love with the sport and my son is getting in to it as well. Once we have our own gear we will be able to ramp up our time on the water (safely with groups that have more experience, etc to start for sure.) As to your mention of Lake George before, can’t get out that way now. I’m in Southwestern Mass, but we are vacationing in Salisbury soon. Plan to rent some while out there, to try another type as well. Guided tour on Merrimack estuaries.
You may need the spray skirt
It is quite possible that any spray skirt you have now will be too big for the Avocet LV cockpit. Too large of a skirt is a hazard in waves if nylon, and it still can let in too much water if neoprene. As you get into the more dedicated sea kayaks the skirt sizes start getting a lot fussier.
If the spray skirt is good, figure between 30 to 50 bucks or so bucks comes off the price of the boat if it is a neoprene deck. Nylon skirts used have no value really, since new price is much lower than a neoprene decked skirt.
farther south
It’s just as far as Lake George, unfortunately, but if you ever have reason to head south at any point, the Small Boat Shop in Westport on Long Island Sound in Norwalk is right on the water and stocks a huge range of kayaks including pre-owned boats. You can demo right there at the pier along their entrance.
http://www.thesmallboatshop.com/
Really nice folks.
an update
Went to local outfitter. They have been very helpful with questions etc. I sat in a bunch. Ended up deciding to try out the ones that seemed to fit me best sitting inside the boat. Tsunami 120, Nocky Looksha si, and Hurricane Tampico 140 (though I think they have a used 135s that I will try). Those were the ones that felt right. They also carry the Elie strait that I already rode in. I will go out on the water with those three today. I am sure they all ride very differently. I did try out the Venture Easky 13. I loved the way it felt on the water- extremely stable, but it felt so big in the cockpit to me. If I have time, I will try to get up to Lake George and try some more. But alas, we go on a scheduled vacation very soon. Thanks for you advice. Do you have any specific advice about the ones I plan to try later today? I worry about thermoform and rocky riverbeds ( though many say it is a non issue)
Comments on the boats
– Last Updated: Aug-16-12 11:54 AM EST –
Looked at the boats - re the Tampico, you mean the TampicoS, yes? Hurricane site is being cranky but look at the dimensions of the Tsunami SP for a starting point for you (more below on that).
The Necky boat is not one I know personally. They have shrunk the cockpit a bit, but you are still getting a paddle into the water across a 25 inch boat width and hauling a boat with way more volume (275 lbs if I still recall right) than you need. You'd need to load it with so much gear it'd be a submarine for most to get the ideal waterline.
Tsunami 120 not it at all. The deck height is over 15 inches - at 5'3" you'd need a telephone book in the seat to even get to those thigh braces usefully, and combine that with 25.5 inches wide you'll have the devil of a time accessing the water for a comfortable stroke. Look at the 3 inch lower height and narrower width of the Tsunami SP - that is your scale physically. [Later update - it may not be your weight range, but you still have to reach the water.)
There are practical reasons to try and hit a boat right in terms of comfort in terms of cockpit fit and overall volume. Cockpit fit goes to how easily, that is without having to contort your back, you can rotate to paddle while still maintaining the ability to thoughtlessly get to the thigh braces and foot pegs to manage a situation. If that fit is bad, at some point there'll be issues like back pain or if you are vulnerable, sciatica from paddling.
Overall volume goes to whether the boat sits at its ideal water line when normally loaded, and all the specs for how well the boat turns or and generally behaves on the water are written assuming that it is hitting that waterline. Too low in the water and it is sluggish, too high in the water it is bobbing around too high and is much more of a PITA to handle in wind.
The other factor in deck height is, since you are likely to be paddling solo, getting back into the thing should you get surprised on the water. Dealing with an unnecessarily high deck is truly exhausting - the lower the deck the easier it is. That's not to say I would get a boat with a deck tuned just to handle this problem, but having a boat that makes this easier is a consideration for me some days when I have to choose between two. I respect being really really tired - it complicates just about everything if there is an issue.
My last comment on all of these is they have a dratted seat back sticking up above the cockpit. It is not a reason to skip getting any of these boats (as long as they fit) for your current purpose. But that kind of seat back will be an impediment if you want to push into more skills later on, and by the time you spend the money for setting up you might as well have a boat that can change with you. Ask if the boat's seat can later be modified to pull out the seat back and put in a backband - I think you'll find it can, but best to find out now.
Don't overlook going used to start. It's a good way to get into a boat that you don't have to feel fussy about.
More on these boats and you
I am so sorry on one thing - I forgot a part of your profile in that last post. Holes in the brain here - things are not normal at home these days.
Anyway, you are in the height but of the weight range officially for the Tsunami SP, but only by 20 pounds. Frankly, our day gear can weigh more than that by the time you figure water bottles, spare clothing and food. I would still suggest you try that boat for its configuration in terms of deck height and assumptions about leg/thigh length. The diff between you and the top listed weight may not much show up - manufacturers have been known to put out a boat that supported higher capacity than the ratings more than once. Some of the current regular person sea kayaks out there are pretty much the same boats that were originally put out as small person’s boats - until small people got into them.
Tsunami 135
Maybe you should look at the Tsunami 135 instead of the 120. It’s lighter, lower deck height, and much narrower than the Tsunami 120. You can swap out the high backrest for a backband for about $70.