Choosing a canoe (or maybe a kayak?)

Fishing
#8

Nick,

you’re right, I didn’t really recognize that middle console as a seat in the Saranac and Adventure, so 1-3 people could indeed go.

I’ll stick with my recommendation, though, for other reasons. The boats you’re looking at are very heavy (ACK lists different weight than MR website) and will be difficult for you to transport, and the molded-in seats and consoles take up quite a bit of space. If you still like them, I’d buy used: those models are ubiquitous on craigslist.

You can buy backrests for canoe seats, including in web or cane. Search Google Images to see what’s available. Also, didn’t mean to dismiss all plastic canoe seat, just those in those models.

#9

Don’t waste your money with a single layer poly canoe. They are junk. That middle seat/cooler just adds weight and is not properly placed to use as a solo seat, and makes single person portaging impossible.

15 feet is a bit small for 4 people. Get a used 16’ or 17’ Royalex or 3 layer poly as stated in a previous post. You can always find Old Town discoveries (169,158) on Craig’s list, and often 16’ Mad River explorers. Royalex is lighter than 3 later poly. Aluminum is a better choice than single layer poly.

I have a 17’ Mad River Explorer, It worked great with me, my wife and 2 kids. I soloed it for several years before getting a dedicated solo canoe.

You seldom see back rests on experienced paddlers canoes. They add weight and make entering/exiting a pain.

#10

I agree with the advice by melenas and cannonball. Also, one completely different option that might work for you is a tiny rowboat. The only new ones I see nowadays are plastic, and that might work, but older aluminum versions show up on the used market around here. I’m getting into the realm of being an old fart, and when I was a kid, seeing dads and their kids out fishing in such boats was quite common. It’s harder to car-top little aluminum rowboats though. Do you have space for a 12’ to 14’ boat on a trailer? Oh, and 14’ feet would be better if all three kids go with you (14 feet would be too short for a canoe or kayak, but not for a rowboat). I’m not sure about where you live, but finding a used one plus a trailer for the price you mention wouldn’t be at all difficult around here.

#11

Avoid the OT Saranac and MR Adventure. Those poly hulls are crap. The molded seats look nice but their main purpose is to provide rigidity to the cheap hull. They also waste room (if you ever go camping, that will be key) and prevent you from kneeling if you choose.

If you are ocassionally bringing kids a tandem is a must. As someone suggested a MR Explorer or OT Discovery or Penobscot would be decent choices.

I like my Explorer for fishing and it handes pretty well solo when I flip it around and paddle from the bow seat. The only time I had difficulty was on very windy days.

Also a Nova Craft Bob Special, PAL, or a Wenonah Spirit II would also be good, as would pretty much any mfrs. version of the Prospector. They would mostly be over your price point new, but you can certainly find one used that is in your price range.

#12

I’ve actually found a very affordable Wenonah Fisherman online. My only concern is how easy is it to paddle solo? And, is it pretty easy to add a 3rd seat when I do bring my kids? Any thoughts on this boat and those concerns?

#13

@nickmanderson said:
I’ve actually found a very affordable Wenonah Fisherman online. My only concern is how easy is it to paddle solo? And, is it pretty easy to add a 3rd seat when I do bring my kids? Any thoughts on this boat and those concerns?

The Fisherman is not ideal because 14 ft is very small for a tandem. It’s a stable boat and with young kids it can work. If you get a good deal on it then it is far, far better choice than one of the poly hull boats such as the Adventure and Saranac. Go for it.

Flip it around and paddle from the front seat and it should handle quite well solo. Hang a temporary seat or get a cheap beach chair for one of the kids to sit in.

When the kids get older then you will need something longer but I think it will do what you want it to do for now. Though not the best choice I think it is a very good one considering your price point and needs right now.

#14

One last thing…I have a small electric trolling motor. Do you think I could easily attach something like that to the Wenonah Fisherman and use solo?

#15

There are canoe brackets for trolling motors that you can buy (see LL Bean, Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops), or you can make something yourself. Check out Youtube. I’m sure you can find a number of videos on how to make one.

#16

the very things I like about my mr adventurer 16 make it a poor choice for fishing. middle seat is poorly designed, probably hard to paddle and fish from there, ,. The bow and stern seats are higher than they need to be but are built the way to provide hull rigidity- So the initial stability probably isn’t the best for fishing, but the boat does have good secondary stability- not enough room for camping equipment - it;s crowded even in my 16 ft model- you can’t run the boat backwards (solo) kneeling

poly tends to do some shape shifting but it is low maintenance and abrasion resistant, it can really take some abuse,and the boat is economical although heavy to load

everything has its plus and minuses but for flatwater fishing you can do better with your stated budget

the adventurer does fine in moving water and even in ww you can heel it some and overall Iike the hull shape and the way it paddles

#17

Thanks BrianSnat. I guess my question was specific to the Wenonah fisherman because you mentioned sitting in the front seat when I am solo. In this scenerio, I would be sitting in the back with the motor…just didn’t know if it would not track correctly with me in the back with a motor when I was solo.

#18

@nickmanderson said:
Thanks BrianSnat. I guess my question was specific to the Wenonah fisherman because you mentioned sitting in the front seat when I am solo. In this scenerio, I would be sitting in the back with the motor…just didn’t know if it would not track correctly with me in the back with a motor when I was solo.

If you are sitting in the back seat solo then you will need some weight up front to trim it. A cooler packed with ice, sandwiches, drinks, etc up front that can double as a place to keep your catch or perhaps a cinder block or a boulder found near the launch wrapped in cloth to protect the boat . Some sort of heavy weight up front and you will be fine with running a motor from the back seat. But even with a trolling motor you are probably better off sitting in the front seat and flipping the boat around, then no need for extra weight up front.

#19

Just be aware of one thing when rigging a canoe with a motor. Most canoes come with just enough flotation to keep from sinking if they flip. Most electric motors are quite heavy (30 pounds or more?) and the battery to run it could easily be 60 or 70 pounds. What’s more, local regulations almost certainly require that the battery be solidly attached to the boat, and of course the motor must be clamped to the boat to function. So, what happens if you flip? Your boat sinks. I know, swamping or a capsize is not likely, but this is something you at least should know. Some people would opt to include some extra flotation, just in case.

On that note, if you need weight for ballast, it makes far more sense to use water than such things as boulders or concrete blocks (which is what most people would mean by “cinder blocks” if they actually knew what they were, since cinder blocks are specifically designed to be extremely lightweight and thus provide minimal weight in comparison to their overall bulk). A container full of water becomes weightless when submerged, and thus will not contribute to all that other mass which is trying to sink your capsized canoe!

#20

Am looking for kayak or canoe for fishing and hunting. Maybe square stern. Want boat 11’ or less and 50 lb or less. Any thoughts.

#21

@thecomplex1@outlook.com said:
Am looking for kayak or canoe for fishing and hunting. Maybe square stern. Want boat 11’ or less and 50 lb or less. Any thoughts.

The format of the message boards here is such that it makes more sense to start a new discussion here in the fishing forum with your question, instead of piggybacking on this one. In any case, few if any folks here will have any experience with the kind of boat you are looking for, since most of them will prefer a boat that’s made to be efficiently paddled. Still, I just did some looking, and was amazed at how many brands of square-stern canoes there are. Among choices close to your specs, two caught my eye.

First, there’s Golden Hawk Canoes. http://www.goldenhawkcanoes.com/home.html I was perusing a message board recently that’s dedicated to hard-core fishermen, and saw that plenty of people just love these boats. I was surprised that they are reasonably good-quality, at least in terms of the method of hull construction. Personally, in spite of the fact that I regularly do fairly long-distance trips in a solo boat, upstream and downstream, on tiny brush-obstructed creeks, and would benefit from a very short boat as much as anyone, I would never consider a canoe shorter than 14 feet, and I suspect that most people who like such short boats don’t paddle in a way that gets the most out of their canoe, but that’s not to say I can’t see a plus side to such craft (see below).

Another one that caught my eye was this square-stern model from Esquif. http://www.esquif.com/en/sporting/mallard/ The description says it’s made of Royalite (a light version of Royalex), and that’s a material that’s not available anymore, but there’s also a tag page describing the hull material they call T-Formex, which is a Royalex replacement, so that’s probably what it’s made from. For motorized canoeing when the need is for a craft that is very small, this would be hard to beat (but you can find many different brands that are quite similar. I was surprised how many).

Fishing kayaks of the sit-on-top style are all the rage right now, but as a person who grew up using several kinds of very small, traditional boats, I can’t help but notice that fishing kayaks are actually a terrible choice for most of the people who are using them, if you consider the manner in which they use them (however, for some people, like those fishing off the ocean shore, they are perfect). Most fishing kayaks will weigh roughly twice as much as your target weight (especially when you consider that they usually list the weight without any of the “extras”, and that can even include the seat!). The two canoes linked above are far lighter than any fishing kayak (but any good ones that are similar will be within your target weight range), allow carrying a lot more gear (even the deer you just shot, along with your portable tree stand, and that’s especially true for that Equif model or similar styles that are more like a traditional boat than a bloated pea-pod), and allow far more variability in your seating and your ability to move around inside the boat as you reach for stuff. If you aren’t paddling on wide-open waters and being blasted by the wind, such boats will greatly outperform fishing kayaks in most of the ways that matter. Do a Google search with relevant keywords like “square stern, canoe, 11, 12, feet” and you’ll see how many choices there are.

Hope that helps.

#22

@nickmanderson said:
One last thing…I have a small electric trolling motor. Do you think I could easily attach something like that to the Wenonah Fisherman and use solo?

A couple of points here: The Fisherman is a wide and stable boat that will carry much more than its 14’ length would suggest.

If you are soloing the thing backward from the front seat already, and want to add a trolling motor, then set it behind the seat you are sitting in and the trim will be less of a problem.

This boat will be stable, but slow.

Peter

#23

Most of our canoe paddling members at the club paddle from the stern seat and carry a water jug filled with river water when paddling solo. They place it in the bow. It keeps the boat trim reasonable. I’m thinking they use 5 - 6 gallon jugs. Most cinder blocks are made of concrete these days, cause damage and weigh about 50 pounds for an 8" stretcher block…all the time. A six gallon jug weighs 48 pounds only when full.

#24

You make a valid point, with one listed advantage of using water that wasn’t already mentioned by others (you don’t have to take all that weight with you to and from the river), but I have a minor quibble here, in the interest of accuracy. To say that most cinder blocks these days are made of concrete is every bit as wrong as saying that most aluminum round stock these days is made of steel simply because your local hardware store doesn’t have the aluminum stuff in stock. You can’t mix and match terminology that way and still make sense.

#25

You know, I was agreeing with you.

As to construction terminology I’m a little sensitive to that, but then again I forget regional idosyncrasies. I always refused to build anything up north of Atlanta.

#26

Yeah, I’m not trying to be all that hard-nosed about it. But then, everything up north of Atlanta leaves a lot of country! That’s okay. If one really wants to delve into specifics, “concrete” includes both standard and lightweight varieties, but since “cinder block” gets it’s name from lightweight aggregate that was once commonly derived from coal cinders, it can only refer to the lightweight variety (even if the aggregate is some other light material besides cinders), not the standard-weight stuff. I’m unswayed by regional vernacular. ASTM manuals and construction spec books use the proper names for these materials no matter what part of the country you are from (though “cinder block” is actually too generic to show up in either place!)…

#27

Your price-range will, most likely, knock my pick out, but keep it in mind…true tandems are often pretty efficient for more than one person…and your original hope of a pack boat that’ll keep four safe…seems like somewhat of a dangerous pipe-dream…however some version of 16 footer may fit the bill.
A 17’ [composite] tandem will be the best minimum for the four of you…if you want to enjoy any kind of trip with one or more. Something with a little rocker at both ends will handle far better than a tandem without, although there are quite a few without much that paddle just fine, but with a little rocker is much easier to turn in the wind when soloing. A composite with rockered bow/stern will be do-able solo, albeit will require some energy…but will be a much safer proposition than something smaller for the four of you…and will give a fun paddle for whoever wants to paddle, as boys often want… You bring a towel with you when soloing to put whatever you want for trim on…although you also do want to adjust your position when paddling when you solo…
$.01