Thank you Celia and Kudzu
I am looking at the Necky Chatham, Perception Sonoma, and Wilderness Tempest. I really like the styling and features of the Tempest! What is the difference/advantages of dropable skeg vs. rudder?
As a skeg user
who has also owned a ruddered boat, I can tell you that almost always, the skeg is the bettr of the two.
The skeg does not stick up like a sail to catch the wind when you are not using it.
The foot peddles are completely stiff so you can brace against them with any part of your foot.
Disadvantages are that it can jam in the up position. Drill a small hole in the end of it and put a small piece of line through it and also carry a “skeg repair tool” as described in past posts by Flatpick and you are good to go.
Of your three boat choices, I am very partial to the Tempest and Chatam. Once you paddle a boat with a day hatch and a skeg, you’ll never go back.
Next thing is to learn to use a GP.
Skeg etkegera
Yes, I really, really like the looks of the seat and easy-in, easy-out hatch design on the Tempest. The hull lines look great, too! What is a GP? Do you mean a GPS?
A skeg
will keep you going straight, but won’t help you turn, as a rudder will. That being said, a livley debate will likely ensue over whether either is actually desirable.
Many people feel that these aids keep paddlers from developing better techniques for dealing with weathercocking and general boat handling. That being said, there are also plenty of folks who discount this. It’s a matter of personal preference.
Oh No! Skeg and Rudder…
HUGE piece of advice - look for a boat that fits and handles the way you like (without using the skeg or the rudder at first), and accept whatever tracking device comes with the one you like the best. With rare exceptions like QCC, the manufacturer will have already made the choice of the most appropriate device for that particular hull design.
If you have days available to be truly boggled, there are looong Skeg v. Rudder threads to be found in the archives. But the above advice is a lot easier since much depends on the hull design. My first sea kayak was the CD Squall, which had a rudder that I never used because the boat tracked like a train, turned just fine on a lean and had zilch rocker. My current sea kayak does have a decent amount of rocker, and a skeg which I do find myself using in following seas because of its rocker.
I prefer the lack of fussiness in a rope skeg - easiest of the lot to fix if it breaks when you are out there. But that’s more about problem management than how it works.
correction
please take the phrase “longer boat” or “a 16’ kayak” and throw it out the window. For average paddling speeds a Sonoma13 will be easier to paddle than a $1000 Perception Carolina that’s 16’. A longer kayak in and of itself will NOT be easier to paddle longer distances and in winds. With your weights often a longer kayak translates into a bigger kayak. Bigger isn’t better for wind/waves if you haven’t loaded the kayak with more weight.
You might check out a CD Squamish but that’s over budget.
ANY kayak you get will only go as fast as you can paddle so any ‘longer kayak’ that you aren’t paddling at a brisk effort won’t be faster than a shorter yet more efficient (less wetted area) kayak paddled at an average pace.
GP = Greenland Paddle
stabilitly
– Last Updated: Jun-03-05 1:45 PM EST –
is not an issue with larger boats unloaded as much as being blown sideways is an issue. Also if the kayak is big unloaded it's probably too big anyway.
You have just moved out of the $1000/kayak budget in a few posts to the $1700/kayak budget going by brandnew+one accessory which if you included gear is a $2200 budget if you include paddle,pfd and misc.
At this point driving to a couple places and spending $20/gas+$20 for demo/rental would make a LOT of sense. If you HAD to buy something then get a paddle and pfd then STOP buying anything for the season,,and only rent. You really will appreciate the advice because you'll be interacting with people who can steer you to deals WHILE developing a feel for what you really want based on the water,,and not numbers.
That's why I was pushing the Manitou,,it works, it's cheap, it's resalable.
Wow! Tempest 165 Reviews
Wow! The reviews for this boat are good enough for me. My wife and I found a dealer that sells them for $1100 each in poly. He will let us paddle a demo as well. This is a bit pricier than I wanted, but we I earned some gift certificates at work and can get our gear at 1/2 off. Maybe the dealer will sell us a demo model???
How A Skeg Works:
– Last Updated: Jun-04-05 5:35 AM EST –
On a windy day:
Skeg up - bow turns toward wind.
Skeg half down - bow stays neutral.
Skeg down - bow turns away from wind.
These are good boats also.
– Last Updated: Jun-03-05 4:07 PM EST –
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=1506
I have also met several Tempest owners and they all had good things to say about their boats.
A versatile compromise boat
Since you say that you have ready access to Neckys, and that you do not insist on a 16-foot-plus length, and want to spend around $1000, I should mention that I have been very happy so far with my Necky Looksha Sport.
At 14.5’, with two bulkheads and hatches, rudder system, competent cockpit outfitting, and ample deck rigging, it has proven to be a very versatile boat for everything from exploring small creeks to cruising large inland lakes to multi-day coastal camping trips on the Great Lakes. All for around $1200.
Some will argue, “If you try to buy a boat that does everything, you’ll end up with a boat that does nothing well.”
In my opinion, what they are actually saying is: “If you buy a boat that seeks to do everything, you’ll end up with a boat that does no specific task as well as would a boat designed for that same specific task.”
In other words, such a compromise boat will not handle whitewater as well as a boat designed specifically for whitewater. Nor will it conduct itself with great aplomb on ocean or Great Lakes crossings as well as a purpose-designed touring sea kayak would. All true. In fact, to use a compromise boat in the relative extremes of these two distinctly different tasks could be dangerous and foolhardy, and not very much fun.
But what is often overlooked is that a compromise boat, if well-designed for its task, will certainly perform on mild whitewater far better than will a sea kayak. And it will handle open water or coastal paddling better than any strictly-whitewater boat. A high-quality, capable, and versatile rec/touring boat, such as the Looksha Sport, will allow you and your wife to sample a wide variety of different types of paddling, and learn all the basic and intermediate strokes, rescues, and other safety techniques. Yet you will not outgrow it as fast as you might a full recreational boat like an Old Town Loon, etc…
If and when you decide you enjoy one type of paddling more than the others, you’ll have a couple seasons of paddling under your belts, and will be better able to make an informed decision on your next boats.
Good luck!
Head to Farmville on June 11th?
Let me start by saying I have no affiliation with Appomattox River Company! Never even been to Richmond. But I did a quick search (beats workin’) for kayak dealers in Virginia and found this http://www.paddleva.com/home.htm
It’s a kayak dealer who’s having an on-water sale & demo next Saturday the 11th. Looks like they have quite a few boats, including a lot of used boats. Trying them on the water is a great way to find one that fits. Hopefully it’s not too far for you to go.
For the versatile type of paddling you want to do, look for a boat with a low profile, a little more rocker than some of the touring boats out there, but make sure it has an adjustable skeg or rudder to assist with tracking when you are in bigger water. The extra rocker will help maneuver in the rivers & creeks.
Wilderness Systems Tempest 165 or Cape Horn 150 or similar boat would be good. Impex makes some great boats in that line, but might be tough to find for $1000. Prijon makes very good, rigid plastic boats, but are hard to find back east, I think. Finding a high quality used boat is better, IMHO, than a low quality new boat.
Good Luck
a glass boat will outlast poly
given good care. repairs are easy.
Just back from shopping and…
Hmmm, I am still leaning towards the Tempest 16.5’ but I am only 70 minutes from Appomatox and that is where the demo day is next week. I was thinking of heading there tomorrow to see if I could paddle the Tempest, but maybe I should wait and paddle more boats around. I do not know how useful th paddle day will be, since I will just be in a calm pond. Also, I have called several rental shops that I found online and none of them rent anymore. Insurance rates skyrocketed since Sept. 11th forcing many shops to stop renting. I did find one shop that gives tours, but at $100 for 3 hours and I would have to go with them on the tour each time I went out. I checked the classified ads here, on ebay, and elsewhere and have had no luck finding a used, low-volume boat just yet. Maybe I will just have to suck up a $3000 total budget instead of a $2000 one. I am figuring that two Tempests, paddles, PFDs, paddling jackets, and spray skirts will put me about there.
70minutes east or west
Are you closer to the Farmville shop or to the Bay and the Yorktown shop?
Wait for the demo day if you can even if it is on a pond.
Beyond that, buy the boat to serve the majority of your time. The Zoar Sport will be better for the James River between Richmond and the Mountains. It will be adequate for the bay. The Tempest will serve Chesapeake Bay duty better.
I’ve lived in SW Va where the majority of my paddling was on the relatively placid Va portion of the New River. I grew up and went to grad school on the lower Chesapeake Bay. In the mountains I had a blast with a heavily rockered rotomolded 14.5’ rec boat. It carted me on everything the Virginia portion of the New offered aside from the biggest rapids at Narrows and Byllesby. It also worked well for my home creek and river (Jones Creek and lower estuarine James River) as well as the lower York River and adjacted bay. Then in grad school I was spending lots of time on the lower York River and adjacent Chesapeake Bay. Then I got a 16’8" touring boat and that worked better on the open water.