BTW, how big is the dog?
It occurred to me that this could start mattering if you are talking about heeling a canoe. Likely an easier thing with a Cairn Terrier than a big Labrador…
16’ and solo
– Last Updated: Apr-06-14 2:11 PM EST –
I still think that 16' is a good all-around length. I've paddled with young children and with my wife after arthritis made it so she couldn't do much paddling herself. 15' was okay, and 16' seemed to work well too.
We did have bigger canoes for a while - one 17' and another that was 17'6". I thought they were a bit large for when I was the only one paddling, or when I was paddling solo. We have had one 15' solo, a Novacraft Bob Special, that I enjoyed because of its maneuverability, which isn't what you are looking for, although it was pleasant to handle when I was the only one paddling.
I see some vigorous discussion above about the merits/demerits of a tandem for paddling solo. I have spent plenty of time soloing a tandem and I don't see any difficulty with it. The comment about a woman not being able to handle a tandem by herself left me a bit puzzled. As far as I know, all of the women I know have two arms, two legs, a butt to sit on, and knees to kneel on, so they appear to meet all of the "requirements" for solo paddling. I'm sure that our previous poster would want to make sure their nail polish matched the color of their canoe and they had one of those nice church hats and an ensemble of dainty canoeing clothing, and please don't forget to get you hair done before you go out on the water. We would not want our poor fellow paddlers to forget how dainty and helpless you are.
Now, as far as specific canoes are concerned, I previously suggested the Wenonah Adirondack and Escapade, although I would lean toward the Adirondack just because I have had one and enjoyed it. I see that Wenonah also has the 15' Heron, although they call it compact _and_ maneuverable. Looking at the Novacrafts, the Falcon looks like one to consider. As I mentioned earlier, the Bob Special was one I enjoyed paddling, but it sounds like it is probably more maneuverable than you would prefer. One other thing I just remembered about the Bob Special was that the bow seat was set further toward the bow than the seat is on some of the other canoes. My wife seemed to manage okay, but I did not much care for it.
And last but certainly not least, please take a look at the Hemlock Eaglet. It sounds like a delightful boat and I've heard good things from the couple of folks I know who have paddled one.
Good luck!
I agree with that part
– Last Updated: Apr-06-14 3:13 PM EST –
Two boats to include tandem and solo use is the best solution. That said, plenty of good paddlers make tandems work pretty well as solos.
I don’t agree, about tandems making
good solos, or about the number of people who can do that.
Actually, I could agree somewhat more if we were talking about paddling tandems like the Blue Hole OCA or the OT Tripper in whitewater. I’ve done that, up through class 3, and I have friends who have done it up through class 4.
But if we’re talking lakes, as indicated by the OP, then there are very few paddlers who can manage tandems, loaded or not, in a consistently competent way. Becky Mason and the lot. Otherwise, getting in a properly sized solo boat will result in an immediate leap in safety and progress on the water.
I can’t see how anyone can suggest the OP try to go with just one canoe. It isn’t going to work. Won’t work for you, won’t work for me, won’t work for her.
Sure
That’s why I said I agree with you. I added the qualifier once I started thinking about a couple of people here who would challenge that if I didn’t.
The OP’s remarks about about being concerned with tracking, etc. tell me she’s no Becky Mason, and there’s no reason that she, or we, should expect that to be greatly different in the near future either.
Unbounded Thanks!
I am truly overwhelmed with all your advice, experience and recommendations, and very grateful. Never did I expect such help. This is going to be a big investment for me alone, so you have given me plenty to think about. I will review everyone’s input and expect I’ll be a lot farther in my decision making process.
To answer a couple of things (if anyone is still there), yes I anticipate only lake canoeing. In retirement John and I, living in Alaska, have only canoed lakes in Alaska, Yukon Territory and British Columbia. No river experience, and no great desire for same, as we enjoyed the serene peace and quiet of wilderness lakes. Since I am leaving Alaska soon, I anticipate searching for other lakes on many road trips - with the dog - a mid sized husky mix who has no problem in a canoe, settling in where told and actually sleeping on a sunny day.
So, yes. I anticipate a lot of solo canoeing with me, the dog and my own camp gear which should amount to about a 20 - 25# pack. Probably the likelihood of having passengers along for camping on the far side of the lake is small, rather day trips to take a friend along for a ride. Nonetheless, I do want it to be fast for maximum response when needed, so I’ll have to look at hull depth and try to find a compromise between tracking and “stealth” ;). There have been times when the wind came up, the old one did really well at the quarter angle back to shore, and I hope to achieve that again.
I am really grateful for what seems consensus that at least 16’ will get me closer to maximum performance, and if it’s Kevlar, I probably won’t have much problem portaging.
Thanks, so much, again. Lots to think about, but I am getting excited as summer approaches and my move is complete - already scoping out some lakes in the PNW, and, of course, Boundary Waters definitely on my list.
(p.s. I only wear nail polish on my toes, and hairspray will never find itself in my pack. 
I’d take a look at the Eaglet too
BTW the jab at Celia was uncalled for.
As a woman soloist for the last 17 years on big lakes I say that men and women are not created equal in the horsepower department. Its not sexist. Its a fact. So a smaller canoe IS something to consider. Why: cause it has less skin friction for a lower horsepower person (unless you can get the dog to paddle. Mine has resisted instruction) and because large canoes have a lot of “sail” area with a light load particularly to be influenced by the wind. One of my least favorite trips was soloing a 16 foot Dumoine 140 miles mostly into a headwind. I was using a kneeling thwart close to the center of the canoe.
Another time I soloed an 18 foot Souris Wilderness…the wind came up on Wabakimi lake and it was not much fun.
So mostly I now solo in solo boats… I have several…all 15 feet long and under 30 inches wide. The dog prefers the wider of the solos. She persists in standing in the narrower of them… she only lies down with ample room.
When you try to make a boat fill too many jobs it does not do any of them well.
Altered advice for solo paddling
– Last Updated: Apr-06-14 6:29 PM EST –
Based on this, I'm really thinking your first choice should be a solo canoe. That eliminates the possibility of taking a passenger, but in this case, I really think focusing on your main type of use is better than trying to be prepared for every possibility, especially when the alternative situations probably won't happen all that much (ask those of us who paddle in a lot of different situations if we do it all with the same boat).
If you go with a solo boat, you can probably do quite well at 15 feet or even 14. You see, the longer the boat, the faster it can go, but not without also increasing the amount of paddling power. In a tandem canoe, power for propulsion is not nearly as limited as it is when paddling solo. So for paddling with moderate effort, or for a person who's paddling with strong effort but is not extremely strong, a 14- or 15-foot solo canoe will usually cruise quite easily at the kind of speed a single person has the power to maintain. In other words, when power is limited, longer is not always faster. Edit: See kayamedic's post below. She is saying exactly the same thing, and gives examples.
If you check out what solo canoes are available, you'll see that the most common lengths for general-purpose models range between 14 and 15 feet, with a few specialty cruisers being a bit longer. The good news is that some of these boats are very light. My Merlin II is a nice solo boat made by the defunct company "Bell Canoe Works", and it's 15 feet long, and the catalog weight for the Kevlar model is 33 pounds but mine actually weighs 31 pounds. It's not a dedicated cruiser (it's turns better than a true cruiser), and there are faster solo canoes out there, but a solo paddler with good technique, or a bad paddler who uses a double-blade paddle, can keep up with an average couple paddling an average tandem canoe.
Merlin II description here:
http://tinyurl.com/lru9ubs
You can't buy one new anymore, but knowing the dimensions and specs, relative to what it's good for, may still be of help when it comes to decision making.
I really didn't interpret your original post to be mostly about solo paddling (others here were more perceptive than I). I'd encourage you to think about a solo canoe, at least as your first boat. You can always be a lot less fussy when searching for a tandem, even if you do so on the used market to save money, because tandem paddling in general is a lot more forgiving in terms of boat type and paddling skill, so you usually need not wait for the "perfect boat". The consequences of getting the wrong solo boat are a lot more noticeable.
It should not have left you puzzled,
because by any functional standard, neither the late Bill Mason, nor the wonder person Becky Mason, can handle a true tandem canoe up to scratch.
It’s not a matter of getting by with a tandem. It’s a matter of being able to handle much the same conditions in a tandem that a good tandem team can handle in the same canoe.
It isn’t faking it, it’s making it.
If you want to be really on top of the water on big, wavy lakes, you don’t solo a true tandem canoe. You choose a properly sized and designed solo canoe.
I suggested to the OP that if she wanted to make it, tandem, or fake it, solo, then she should buy the last available Bluewater Freedom Tripper 17. But that would not be my choice. If I solo into the wilderness, I’m not interested in faking it in a 16’, 35’ wide tandem. I have one, but that’s not my choice.
I see repeated pretense, on both sides of the Atlantic, that one can make do with a tandem for tandem and solo. But when you say “make do”, you have implicitly admitted that you’re faking it.
Tandem width, and snarkiness
– Last Updated: Apr-07-14 1:38 AM EST –
You apparently don't comprehend the difference between being able to make a barge go and having a properly fitting boat that is really fun to paddle. Others have done a better job than me above.
Or you live in some place where women are not on average shorter in height and arm reach than men. Maybe this is not so in some place like Norway?
Or you do not approve of a woman having a really spritely, responsive boat that is fun to paddle.
As to the attempt at satire about makeup - suffice to say that no one who actually knows me would even think of anything so off base. But it is an relatively anonymous board (especially for you with no profile) and cheap ignorant shots are easy.
My two cents…
– Last Updated: Apr-07-14 3:30 PM EST –
For reference, I'm 5'9', 150lbs, some experience in sea and whitewater kayaks along with canoes. Not very experienced compared to many of the folks here. Most of my paddling has been on small lakes in a Bell Morningstar 15.5' tandem, either solo or with a passenger, often with one or two 70-lb dogs. The Morningstar has a kneeling thwart. My usual passenger/partner is fairly small and light.
Paddling calm water solo without dogs, I like kneeling and putting the canoe up on edge(as Becky Mason teaches). This makes the reach to the water very comfortable. With pasengers, the canoe has to stay level and the reach to water is more of a stretch. The tumblehome on the Bell does help with the reach.
I've been out solo in whitecaps and managed OK, but paddling a tandem solo in wind and waves is not easy(at least for me). There's a LOT of windage to deal with. On the other hand, the stability of the tandem let me experiment with standing and poling, which is a whole different kind of fun.
I don't have a lot of experience in solos, but I built a solo based on the Swift Osprey that I set up to be trim with one big dog, and it's been great for that. It's much easier to manage when conditions kick up, easier to handle on land, and the dog likes the lower freeboard. If I wasn't carrying a large dog I'd want something with less beam. I have demoed the Hemlock Peregrine and Kestrel and liked them.
http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/falcon.html
I had a Wenonah Vagabond(Royalex) solo for a season. It felt a bit too wide for me.
If most of your paddling will be solo, buy a solo first.
If I had to have one canoe for solo and tandem, I'd look for a Bell Northstar -- same capacity as the Morningstar but a bit narrower.
J-stroke?
One thing that I have seen with people coming off of tandems is they have not needed a really comfortable J-stroke - especially if they have been the person in the front. If I have the Merlin heeled over at my pretty average size for a female, that is the stroke I have to use.
I admittedly have never gotten a good J-stroke myself, and the last couple of years have not provided me an opportunity to work properly on any paddling.
But - one thing I recall from when I was taking the canoe out to work on this - is that the J-stroke did something not-so-good to my wrists. I play a stringed instrument so I noticed the next practice session. I don’t know whether it was due to garden-variety aging arthritis, or the result of decades of twisting the wrist around in a way that most people don’t. But it was enough of an issue that I would have to find a way to resolve it to do a lot of canoeing the right way.
Sooo- another thing that has not come up in this thread is whether the OPer would be a J-stroke or sit and switch paddler, at least from what I can see on a quick scan. Like myself, this is not a young person.
Illustrates why instruction is
a good investment.
A J stroke is not meant to torture your wrists and arms. There is no need to torque your shaft hand down. Keep it loose around the shaft like a gooseneck.
The other thing I sometimes do with students is introduce them to the palm roll. That maneuver makes the stretch on the grip forearm barely noticeable.
There are many many variations on the J.
Celias post illustrates why there are several sizes of solo canoes. The Merlin II fits me. From her post because it seems too big for me she heels it over to allow a vertical paddle stroke. Everyone in a tandem paddled solo needs to heel the tandem in order to make a stroke parallel to the keel line.
Paddling from the bow seat backward doesn’t cut it. Invariably that stroke has too much built in sweep which you have to undo with a harder J than would normally be necessary.
Ayup, on instruction
– Last Updated: Apr-07-14 3:16 PM EST –
I failed to say that the first investment would be in instruction to try and resolve this, and something more steady than an afternoon class or two. I tried that and it didn't do the job as well for me.
I would also go back - had I time to be serious - and get more tuned advice on a paddle. My hands are small with shorter fingers than proportional. I look enviously at players with long fingers, but it just isn't how I was made. I suspect the best equipment for me, to allow for a relaxed-but-effective grip, is not the standard decent paddle.
And yeah, the Merlin is ideally too wide for me. I had this conversation with Charlie at an event some time ago and the width measurement he put out was more along the lines of a RapidFire fitted with a belly band than the Merlin. But the Merlin I got is a super light layup that I can easily carry, it was fairly inexpensive, and it'll get me on the water on a hot night with less fuss than the sea kayaks. So like the old school Piedra that is great for creek paddling where I am dragging the boat over berms and old beaver dams. it has a place in my life.
If I wanted to get serious about canoeing, first stop would likely serious instruction combined with a search for available used boats.
Even if I am kneeling deeper in the bilge of the Merlin than necessary - it is possible - too wide is too wide.
PS - I am average size for my generation, not tiny.
In my household
we have 5’3" paddler and a 6’ paddler. The short one, my wife, needs a solo boat for solo work as she cannot reach across a bigger boat. I can solo a small tandem boat because I can reach across it. And, I’ve come to prefer them because I appreciate their added stability and load carrying capacity.
I do not think we ever heard from the OP about her height and reach. I do believe that will determine if she can competently paddle a small tandem. And if she can, while it may not be ideal, it will be versatile.
Peter
ahhhh
I seem to have erred. I wasn’t paying close enough attention. I thought I was responding to g2d and that he had said something sexist, i.e. “little girls can’t handle big canoes,” which I happen to disagree with and thought I’d made my point by poking a little fun at him (not you). I’ve seen plenty of women solo tandem canoes. Whether or not a tandem is the best option is an entirely different question.
As far as the solo vs. tandem, I was merely addressing the OP’s original question. I’ve been paddling solos for 15 years and have paddled most of the solos that have been on the market during that time frame. I most definitely “approve of a woman having a really spritely, responsive boat that is fun to paddle.” My wife’s current boat is a Merlin II. She started out with a Flashfire, but wanted something that tracked a little better, hence the move to the Merlin 2. My personal favorite solos are the Swift Osprey and the Bell Magic.
As for you personally, no, we don’t know each other, but I have enjoyed reading your posts over the years and have found them helpful and informative.
OK - retracted
– Last Updated: Apr-07-14 4:52 PM EST –
BTW, as below my canoe, the rare times I can get it wet, is a Merlin II. It has its place in my life, but as below I would look around for a better fitting primary canoe had I time to get more serious. Or were it my primary craft, which it is not. Kayaks first.
The J stroke is essential in the stern.
For a kneeling solo paddler, the J-stroke should be decreasingly necessary. I J-stoke only maybe 5% of the time.
And don’t EVER say that the thumb of the upper hand should rotate to point downward in the J-stroke. If the thumb does that, it is mathematically and geometrically a fact that the paddle is dragging the boat.
The thumb and the shaft should rotate forward, with the shaft in a vertical plane.
I’m 6’ 5" and I can’t “competently”
paddle a “small” tandem, because the dimensionality is fundamentally wrong.
I can fake it. But that doesn’t make it.
The boat design most amenable to both solo paddling (kneeling, heeled) and tandem use is the Prospector. But the compromise still isn’t favorable. The Masons and Omer Stringer can make it look good, but let me choose my solo, and I will do just fine against them.
I already suggested the Bluewater Freedom Tripper 17. That’s the best non-Prospector.
Depends on reach to the water
It is a helluva lot easier to stay on one side of the boat than argue for good reach to the water on both sides kneeling in the belly of a boat that could afford to be narrower. At least unless I can buy arm extenders. Hence the J-stroke. But as I said, I’d have to spend some time on it.